F1 has been dogged by scandal after scandal in recent years.
In 2005 we had the Indianapolis farce, two years later brought the ‘spygate’ row, last year was dominated by Mosley’s sadomasochism scandal, and the first half of this year was taken up with the budget cap crisis.
But F1’s latest row, over Renault ordering Nelson Piquet Jnr to crash during the Singapore Grand Prix, is surely the worst yet. Indeed one writer has already called it the worst act of cheating in any sport.
I won’t claim a sufficiently encyclopaedic knowledge of sport to make that claim, although it’s gained some favourable responses on Twitter. But it’s hard to think of a worse example from F1’s history.
There have, of course, been other occasions where drivers have crashed or spun on purpose. Alain Prost hit Ayrton Senna in 1989, and Senna hit Prost back in 1990. Michael Schumacher hit Damon Hill in 1994 and Jacques Villeneuve in 1997.
Like Piquet’s crash, these all involved drivers risking the lives of themselves and others, though admittedly to varying degrees – Senna piled into Prost at around 150mph, Schumacher was doing rather less when he took out Hill.
But what sets the Renault case apart is the offensive cynicism of a team ordering one driver to risk injury or worse in a crash to benefit his team mate.
It was not just Piquet at risk – but spectators, marshals and other drivers. The impact showered debris across the track – and recent accidents have left us in no doubt of the terrible risks that presents.
It’s one thing to have a team like McLaren being caught using a rival team’s confidential information. That’s obviously wrong and must be punished – but it doesn’t put anyone’s life at risk.
The FIA may have offered Piquet immunity from punishment but he should not be immune from criticism. Renault’s plan was disgusting but his willingness to go along with it in the hope of promoting his career was cowardly.
It raises all sorts of questions. Was anyone besides Briatore, Symonds and Piquet involved? Had Renault, or any other team, tried this sort of thing before? Have they done since?
And given the manner in which he scored this ‘victory’, should Fernando Alonso now publicly deny the credit for it? I think he should – regardless of whether he knew about it or not (and so far there is no evidence that indicates he was aware of it).
A two-times world champion has no need of tainted triumphs handed to him in a corrupt fashion. He proved that well enough with his victory at Fuji in the very next race.
In 2006 he told the world he no longer considered F1 a sport after being handed a joke of a penalty by the Monza stewards. Now it’s time for Alonso to tell us his no longer considers Singapore 2008 one of his Grand Prix wins.
Renault Singapore crash controversy
- Briatore and Symonds step down as Renault accepts Singapore crash charge
- Piquet-Renault scandal: more new evidence and complaints about leaks
- Statement by Nelson Piquet Jnr on his Singapore crash leaked online
- Did Piquet crash on purpose? (Poll)
- Renault face Singapore crash hearing
- Nelson Piquet Jnr and Fernando Alonso in renault Singapore claim
- Fernando Alonso’s bad luck turns good for win (2008 Singapore Grand Prix)
- 2008 Singapore Grand Prix analysis
- Piquet’s scathing attack on Briatore
- Nelson Piquet Jnr dropped by Renault
- Alonso and the Piquet-Renault fall-out
- Renault F1 team
Comment
- IndyCar’s determination to complete every racing lap is an example to F1
- FIA’s sweeping changes vindicate Mercedes’ belief Hamilton was “robbed” of title
- F1’s sprint race rules change won’t end pole position confusion
- Call F1’s championship finale tainted, but not its deserving new champion
- For the sake of the title fight, F1 must get a grip on its track limits problem
Browse all comment articles
Image ?é?® Singapore GP/Sutton
Jorge
17th September 2009, 2:16
Alonso knew! He must be also penalized. It was not posibily that he did not knew. Before or after he must knew about it and many people think hi was ho told Briatore to make the crash happen.
Remember his role in McLaren case.
Rabi
17th September 2009, 4:57
Seriously I am getting sick of reading this stuff from people about Alonso “knowing”.
if there is evidence and SUBSTANTIAL evidence and not assumptions and theories then post it otherwise keep the drivel out of here.
tEQUILLA sLAMMER
17th September 2009, 9:22
well said Rabi…Alonso was just lucky to be the 1 to benefit and he had to then drive 47 laps to the end of the race!!!! I dont think he would have been told if he didnt need to know……and Hamilton was a clown for blowing 6 points for the team attempting to try and get 2nd or even the race win!!!! What an idiot seeing as he doesnt even need the points for the drivers table as he had very little chance of closing the gap to Jens anyway!!! #:)
Cameron
17th September 2009, 10:26
What does this article have to do with Lewis Hamilton stacking it into the wall?
S Hughes
17th September 2009, 12:00
Actually, the only good thing about this whole shameful episode is that no-one can pin any of it on Lewis Hamilton for a change. But even so, we have someone entering his name into the debate for some strange reason.
bwells
18th September 2009, 7:46
That was random… lol
S Hughes
17th September 2009, 11:58
No concrete proof, but if he didn’t put 2 and 2 together to make 4, he must be really dim. He knew, no doubt in my mind, but instead he tried to take the credit for the “aggressive” strategy, which was, as we all know, a lie. We also don’t know if he discussed it with Flavio but was kept out of the proof-loop. We are entitled to speculate.
Mike "the bike" Schumacher
17th September 2009, 22:29
Alonso said the safety car was lucky for him after the race, on live tv, to briatore, I dont think he would have risk saying this if he knew it was deliberate.
Praveen Titus
21st September 2009, 6:17
Really true. I think those who aren’t fans of Alonso use this as an opportunity to taint his reputation. If Alonso never knew about it (the lack of any evidence suggests that), he’s just like the other drivers out there. I don’t think Alonso needs to forfeit that win. If he does, so should the other podium and points finishers.
Why should Alonso be held responsible for a strategy in which he wasn’t involved at all, even if it was designed by his own team leaders for his apparent benefit? Okay, he benefitted the most, scoring a win, but it was also benefitted the other podium and points finishers. Let them all denounce the positions. Let the race itself be badged a farce. That’s the right thing to do, rather than just allow some Alonso-haters to vent their rage. Alonso denouncing the win won’t solve the matter. The whole race must be canceled (if it’s possible to do that, which isn’t the case). In other words there’s nothing we can do. The FIA should have investigated this earlier. Let’s hope it is promt in these things in the future.
bless musa
10th December 2010, 14:11
Alonso (and Schumie) is a great driver, if only he can win not at the expense of his partner and some other dirty tricks. There might not be evidence to say Alonso was aware of the bizzare strategy but I think, if Nelson was called in to discuss the crash alone, then Alonso also had a private meeting with Briatore. That means Alonso, Briatore and Symmonds were on the same side and whatever they discussed remained secret up to today.
I think Alonso was involved in the strategy and the investigators just failed to gather evidence on his involvement. If he is renounce his win, that wont affect other drivers who benefited from this. In soccer, if a player screws and gets a red card, it affects that player and his team, but the opponents benefit from it, so why should other drivers be punished for Renault’s problem?? The whole race can’t be cancelled just because of one team, F1 is a multi-team sport, therefore punishment can only be given to erpetrators. Alonso is a good driver but really doesn’t like it if his partner is better than him and has the lucky of having team bosses rally behind all the time. If one is Alonso’s partner, that means they are in trouble but his luck failed him at McLaren when Hamilton was clearly the faster driver and Alonso was caught by suprise. Massa is another victim now, he already has given Alonso a win that he didn’t deserve, how many more to come?
algis
17th September 2009, 8:59
If you have any proof – go to FIA with such news. If you don’t know that he was aware, don’t tell this because FIA has 0 evidence that Alonso did know.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
17th September 2009, 9:03
There’s nothing in the documents that implicates Alonso:
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/09/16/flavio-briatore-and-pat-symonds-stand-down-as-renault-accepts-singapore-crash-charge/
saab
17th September 2009, 9:34
I don’t think it’s about proof or something like that. It’s about honor. I don’t know how a professional sportsman looks at his success and victories, but surely Alonso most feel that this victory now leaves a really bad taste in his mouth when his own team has cheated. Being in his shoes I would probably felt I have been robbed of a true victory. He has nothing more to prove in my eye. Like him or not, he is very good driver with two solid championships. So renouncing this win should not harm him in any way (finically, ego, prestige…). But it would do a heck of a lot for the sport and his sportsmanship.
Chalky
17th September 2009, 9:48
Until Renault are found guilty of race fixing by the WMSC, Alonso should not say anything.
At the moment we all have read the leaked documents, but no verdict has been cast.
Yes, it looks very much like Renault are guilty of race fixing, but we still have to wait for Monday.
If Renault are found guilty, then he can stand up and say what he wants.
patrickl
17th September 2009, 10:02
Renault are not going to defend. What else can they be besides guilty?
Ned Flanders
17th September 2009, 16:09
There may not be anything in those documents than incriminates that implicates Alonso, but if this whole mess reminds us one thing about F1 it is to question everything we see. For all we know, the FIA could prove Alonso was involved, but they’re trying to safeguard one of F1’s greatest assets. Who knows how much influence Bernie Ecclestone has in these decisions…
(but obviously Alonso is innocent until proven guilty)
Sam
17th September 2009, 17:01
Alonso would have known but there will be no evidence to suggest that so and he won’t admit so he won’t get punished.
djdaveyp
17th September 2009, 23:26
Ok I admit that I completely dislike Alonso! But unfortunately at present there is no way of proving he was involved. Anybody can speculate, if he was involved I hope some evidence emerges soon. In the mean time, lets just be glad that flavio is out, and about time too!
Mark Billings
17th September 2009, 2:16
If I remember rightly after the race he said something like, ‘the win was due to strategy and a bit of luck’. To me this doesn’t sound 100% innocent. I’m not saying he had anything to do with ‘Crashgate’ but maybe he knew something. I don’t know but can he hear Piquet’s radio?
Anyway, I think he should be DQed and the win granted to Nico Rosberg (2nd) if that’s what he wants. He may feel that he doesn’t want his first win to come courtesy of someone being DQed. Obviously he wouldn’t have won if none of it had happened but he was the best of the drivers not in some way delibaretely helped by the Piquet crash.
This would also push Hamilton up and win the title by 3 points instead of 1. However this slightly loses the drama of the last few laps of Brazil! Which were TERRIFYING, yet exhilarating, and many words that have yet to be invented. I can watch that and still get terrified that the replay might end up different! I’ve never been so close to a TV before!
todd
17th September 2009, 3:38
rubers could have said the same about his monza win.
bit of luck getting past kovi and strategy.
no he cant hear piquet over the radio.
if it was stripped or whatever, 2nd doesnt become first and what not. nothing changes, just no winner.
algis
17th September 2009, 9:01
FIA has stated that race results won’t change. And how Alonso hearing Piquet radio would change the situation? There is a full transcript of team radio – and it looks completely the same like ones from other races.
Alianora La Canta
17th September 2009, 11:46
Drivers cannot hear their team-mates’ radio transmissions, to the best of my knowledge. They have enough trouble establishing a clear link between car and pit without worrying about car to car as well (even on a listen-only basis).
The win was such that if cheating hadn’t been involved, an substantial amount of luck in both strategy and circumstances was the only explanation, so Fernando’s comments after the race don’t shed any light on the situation.
Jorge H
17th September 2009, 2:21
I think i had to know something… he is very smart and he wouldn’t accept that strategy if he didn’t have any guarantees… he had to know!
Nitpicker
17th September 2009, 10:44
Alonso was on a compromised strategy because he had a fuel pump problem in qualifying and was 15th on the grid. Sorry to pee on that bonfire :P
david
17th September 2009, 2:37
I am so angry, I am from London and went to Singapore last year for the first night race, had an amazing time, the race was exciting and interesting, got amazing photos, and most of all have a great memory of running down the pit straight at the end, climbing the fence opposite the podium and seeing the podium ceremony complete with FLAVIO on the podium…..
now, i feel cheated!!!
i am heading to singapore again on monday, if i hadn’t already paid for everything I wouldn’t go!!! i am actually shocked about this!!
Bartholomew
17th September 2009, 4:20
Don´t worry David, even if Flavio is not there, another team will provide a deliberate crash. You can go with the confidence that it will be fun
richard s
18th September 2009, 6:57
No don’t feel cheated. What you experienced was real. Just as WWF is real, tv’s books, movies are real. You paid to be entertained and were rewarded in spades. Just ask the Indian government they know the score!!!!!!
Andrew
17th September 2009, 2:40
The fact that Alonso was at the centre of the McLaren spy scandal and this dreadful example of cheating doesn’t sit right with me. His management must be awfully good tacticians to have him walk out of both incidents looking innocent.
Lustigson
17th September 2009, 7:51
I believe his management firm is run by one F. Briatore.
The_Pope
17th September 2009, 8:19
Yep, as is half the pit lane :(
Ned Flanders
17th September 2009, 20:18
I may be wrong, but I believe that Alonso left Briatore’s management company when he defected to Mclaren back in 2005. If not, I imagine he’ll be looking for a new manager right now!
algis
17th September 2009, 9:03
So you are stating that Alonso benefited from Ferrari papers? Was he making McLaren of his own according to Ferrari plans?
patrickl
17th September 2009, 10:05
No he benefitted from specific questions on setup, weight distribution, brake balance, tyre gas etc, that he had asked to the Ferrari mole.
Nitpicker
17th September 2009, 10:46
Alonso wasn’t centre of the spygate scandal. The guy at Ferrari who provided the information (Nigel Stepney) and the guy at McLaren who took it (Mike Coughlan) were at the centre of it.
Williams4ever
17th September 2009, 12:05
The fact that Alonso was at the centre of the McLaren spy scandal
Hmm let me recollect, He&PDLR were employees testing what their team had asked them to test. They had not taken any initiative to get documents from Nigel Stepney, Had they??
Ron Dennis on initial discovery of document leakage scandal, Lied under oath that documents and its contents had not made past to Couglan and as soon as Couglan shared the docs with Senior Management, Management took measures that document will not be accessed/used by rest of the team. Which as it turned out was blatant lie, the team was infact using the contents and validating what could be used from it as proved by Alonso testimony down the line.
Hmmm so I wonder how a employee, performing his testing duties “As asked by employer” is responsible for Spy Gate :-?
Sri
17th September 2009, 12:40
@Williams4ever
Mostly it was Nigel Stepney, Mike Coughlan, Martin Whitmarsh and Ron Dennis (and some other staff of McLaren). Thanks for shedding some light on it…
By account of people actually saying that Alonso should renounce his win. Well, McLaren shouldn’t have participated at all in the competition last year in the spirit of fairness and sportsmanship. We all know how sincere Ron Dennis was when he was caught just plain lying under oath. The fact that Whitmarsh is still there, leaves me wondering with what to say. Especially since Coughlan named him in some of the statements made.
Bernification
17th September 2009, 13:32
Well, in that case neither should Renault, seen as many of the documents pertaining to McLaren intellectual property where found on Renaults computer system, where they had resided for over a year.
Hell, Renault even had the balls to question the validity of the ‘J-Damper’ (with the FIA) after not being able to understand it’s purpose from the plans they aquirred.
It took until Spain 2008 before they were able to piece together how it worked (you remember, when Renault went from qualifying back 2 rows to pole?)
But, as we’ve seen, the spirit of fair play doesn’t reside in the house of F1. Never has. Colin Chapman anyone?
Sri
17th September 2009, 21:43
@bernification
Right on bernification!
What makes me sick is selective targeting of media… Yeah well, something’s wrong. FIX THE DAMN THING!!!
I don’t care which driver/ team it is. Someone flouts a rule, they need to be delivered a swift kick on their derriere. I miss good ol’ days when people used to live and die for honour. A word much thrown around and little understood these days!
Sri
17th September 2009, 22:27
sorry, i meant to say “by media”, instead of “of media”.
david
17th September 2009, 2:40
also, rosberg and kubica were heading the field prior to the SC far as i know, then got drive thrus for pitting while the pit closed, where would they have ended up if no SC??
Also Massa….he stopped under the safety car right, therefore ferrari may have been rushing more than usual….possibly the cause of the fuel rig issue therefore this ruined massa’s race….if none of this happened maybe felipe would be champion???
all this has totally tainted a great season last year and is a real insult to loyal fans.
RaV
17th September 2009, 12:24
Kubica would have finished in podum, but SC and a drive-through penalty ruined his race. He lost extremely valuable points – rememeber he missed 3rd place in WDC by one point!
Bernification
17th September 2009, 13:50
But your also discounting the fact that;
1. Had Piquet not crashed, a meteorite, that burned up in the upper atmosphere, would not have been deflected by everyone getting up and turning on the kettle when the safety car came out, and would now be able to hit smack bang in the middle of Bernies head. The cranes used to remove cars would have to be used to extricate this foreign body from said govners head, and the race would have to be red flagged. No point in the Gladiators fighting if the Emperor is not present, to coin a phrase.
2. I have it on good authority that a marble laid down by Piquets rear tyre, was made of sticky anti-matter, and Kubica would have run over it on lap 20. When Kubicas car then accelerated past 88 miles an hour, he would travel back in time to become the first Polish WDC, in 1969, pipping Sir Jackie by 1 point in an exciting climax race on Everest. Or was it explode if he went slower than 50 mph? Little matter.
The point is, what happened, happened. Yes, it’s been made farcical by these events, that’s the tragedy. NO-ONE WILL EVER KNOW.
UniRacer
18th September 2009, 21:35
Brilliant! And everyone else just went on posting their silliness, leaving this masterpiece to dwindle like a fogetten candle…. sigh. Keep up the sublime work.
Jonesracing82
17th September 2009, 2:57
imagine now if Hamo didnt pass Glock in Brazil…….
Gusto
17th September 2009, 3:00
Re Calibrating last years results….. Now that is sad.
richard s
18th September 2009, 6:59
waste of time. stop right now. deal with the reality not silly fairytales.
m0tion
17th September 2009, 3:04
Massa is the one I feel for, events and inept team work conspired against him more than once last year and this one was critical although it was more down to management persisting with that failed rig set up. As for Piquet I think many have trouble putting themselves in his shoes, most them the same that slammed in for his ineptness as a driver following those same events and continually claim he had the same car and opportunities as Alonso. As far as I can see Piquet is a very talented racer and needs only to improve his qualifying. That said I think Grosjean is showing promise even if he is not yet up to Piquet’s level. No.2’s and drivers with poor equipment get too rough a time on this site.
richard s
18th September 2009, 7:02
Piquet Jnr is a very “nice boy” but not a good racing driver according to his last manager and now ex-team principle.
todd
17th September 2009, 3:36
dont forget the beginning of this year, hamilton cheating and the diffuser issues…
patrickl
17th September 2009, 10:07
Hamilton didn’t cheat.
He lied to cover up a mistake and to keep his rightful position in the race.
Daffid
17th September 2009, 10:41
Surely if you make a mistake it’s not your ‘rightful’ place?
Daffid
17th September 2009, 10:43
Looking down this thread, I’d just like to say that’s a respectful question to a respectful contributer – not an anti-Hamilton rant :D
patrickl
17th September 2009, 13:26
Well he held the position rightfully (after Trulli spun into the grass) and it was a mistake that he gave it back to Trulli :)
sato113
17th September 2009, 17:41
exactly, hamilton had the right to third place because of Trulli being s**t, (behind the safety car too! lol). Hamilton was just passionate about getting that 3rd place which should have been his.
SYM
17th September 2009, 21:04
Once again I’m getting the ‘in-bred’ moron alert as i read the thinly veiled attacks on Lewis.
Do you guys think that if you get enough ppl buying into the lie then it becomes fact.. “Massa is the one i feel for”, “Hamilton Cheating” and the phony benevolent defense of ” He didn’t cheat… he lied to cover up a mistake…”
… this sport is rotten to the core at the moment and its so called ‘fans’ are reflecting this as well…
F1 and and a certain ‘breed’ of Hurra Henrys that call themselves ‘fans’, panicked themselves into a state of frenzy around the entrance of Lewis into what they perceived as their own private club, got nasty, got found out and ever since we’ve had a merry go round of concocted bits of circumstance and team order errors being spun and counter spun in order to discredit Lewis and justify all the hate thrown his way….
What this latest bit of F1 sleaze shows is that in 2008 Lewis, despite having a race win taken away and other dubious penalties, wouldn’t have even needed to be in 5th place for the Brazilian GP to be World Champion…
Whats wrong with you creeps, don’t you know when to give it a rest… Today Lewis Hamilton is the best F1 driver on that grid…..BY MILES and you know it….he proved it in 2007 against Alonso in the same car and Raikkonen in the Ferrari….
What ever Lewis does, he sticks down your throats because your TV education tells you that ppl that look like him aren’t meant to be so good and so you have to go to extraordinary lengths to demonize him, so i guess we just have to accept that he will always have a hard time with a certain ‘class’ of ‘fan’ here, but for goodness sakes trying to spin the Singapore scandal as an opportunity to farther mud sling crap at Lewis is a bit tasteless to say the least…get a life
Sri
17th September 2009, 22:56
@SYM
Today Lewis Hamilton is the best F1 driver on that grid….
I do not mind whatever you had to say with people spreading mindless hate. However, is Lewis the best driver on the grid, i’ll suggest not. This is not about it, so i’ll end it here.
richard s
18th September 2009, 7:13
He would appear to be the most spirited racer, but still a little rash with some of his on track (and off-track) decisions. He will never earn the nickname “Le Professeur” but then of course he’s not French so that would be silly.
Seriously though some drivers are really smart and some are really fast. Some are both. There is a certain ammount of snobbery in F1 when rating the two. I think Lewis is not currently the best but he may be one day. And good luck to him. Don’t change a thing, just develop and learn… and engage brain before opening mouth in front of the stewards.
Senor Paz
19th September 2009, 0:22
How do we get such a heated debate on Hamilton when the article is about Alonso and the worst thing I’ve ever seen in the history of motorsport? This is pathetic.
By the way, no doubt both Hamilton and Alonso have acted regretfully this year at one stage or another. Hamilton was deceitful in the beginning of the year (a nice way to comment on his shameful lack of honesty), but at least he didn’t put everyone else’s lives in danger.
S Hughes
18th September 2009, 10:27
SYM, you’re my new hero and what you say here is 100% the truth. It is essentially because he is black that he attracts such unprecedented hatred. Well said.
Sri
18th September 2009, 16:06
@ S Hughes
Well, it was a little uncalled for since i observed nobody brought in to question his race, caste, colour, creed, sex etc. What we do question is his and media’s overestimation of his abilities and the state of affairs of his mental faculties. You’re a reigning world champion, with millions in your country looking up to you, why’d you lie?
@richard s
“… and engage brain before opening mouth in front of the stewards.”
EXCELLENT!!! I really lol’d my **** off… kudos… i couldn’t have said it better.
Senor Paz
19th September 2009, 0:24
S Hughes,
Stop embarassing yourself with such stupidity.
Patrickl
18th September 2009, 12:59
Get a grip. Hamilton DID lie even a real fan can acknowledge that.
Keith maybe it’s a good idea to remove the posts of this racist? I mean people who say that other people are racists because they are of a different race are racists in and of themselves.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
18th September 2009, 16:14
I don’t agree. Although I do think there’s a tendency on the part of some people to assume that just because someone doesn’t like or doesn’t like Hamilton it must be because they’re racist. Obviously that isn’t necessarily the case.
neracer
18th September 2009, 16:25
@Patrickl: don’t be ridiculous!
@SYM: if you hadn’t written that, I certainly would! thank you.
Senor Paz
19th September 2009, 0:30
I can understand Patrickl’s frustration. This kid is an embarassment to the Lewis Hamilton fan base. Very amusing.
Patrickl
19th September 2009, 14:38
The sad thing is, I’m a Hamilton fan (also Raikkonen and Alonso fan) and I get accused of being a racist, a sleaze, an “in bred” moron and a creep, simply because I acknowledge the fact that Hamilton lied.
Still that is not enough for SYM’s posts to be removed?
Tmax
17th September 2009, 3:39
Very Good article Keith. I liked you Point(s) very valid and justifying.
The Sport has turned into some sort of political drama and scandal. As far as Alonso is concerned he is finding himself always in the middle of the storm.
For once lets imagine that there was no issue for Alonso with Ron Dennis and Hamilton did not come out so good in his debut as he actually did will this have come out. Alonso would have been using the Ferrari Secrets with Mclaren and got away with the Championship. Is this really fair ? Just because he felt offended the truth came out.
In a similar manner here Alonso has nothing to say because everything was done for him he was never at the receiving end this time. Now Piquet was at the receiving end.
So Piquet is only as much as guilty as Alonso in the Spygate. If Alonso was not punished for his crime then let the same treatment be meated to Piquet.
After all Piquet is a young racer starting his carrer who is under terrible pressure from hard mouths like Flavio who had kept on disgracing him all along.
In that sense Ron was a very fair person he never ever bad mouthed Alonso.
carl (@clwydian)
17th September 2009, 9:26
Alonso should express abhorrence (if no leaks appear then he is as innocent as i suspect). There is no point in rewriting last years results- referees make mistakes in football and things stand (remember the hand of God?).
However Piquet seems to have displayed a disappointing level of ..is it ..professionalism? What happened to sportsmanship. Oh yes.. money happened lol
JHunt
17th September 2009, 3:44
Its the controversies that makes F1 what it is and not GP2 or something else, but its not so good when you put spectators at risk though, so I guess he could’ve put it into the outside wall where there is nobody standing.. but ****($ hell he isn’t a driver !! Anyway Alonso could do his reputation a world of good if he did renouce the win, especially when the FIA already said results won’t be changed, so nothing to lose. Anyway it wasn’t this one incident that put him into the lead, but it did move him up.
richard s
18th September 2009, 7:27
yeah but I don’t subscribe to the “putting people in danger” sanctimonius line.
Sorry I know it is an opinion widely supported across the web, but I don’t believe that it should be given so much weight. Of course it will be the biggest whip used by the FIA (and hence perhaps my aversion) but it was an accident innvolving one car and the circuit has huge safety fences.
I don’t believe the conspiritors would have arranged the crash without understanding the consequences of the move. And Piquet wouldn’t have done it if he didn’t think he could control the situation. He wasn’t that desperate.
Actually I don’t understand all the fuss over this issue of cheating, both for this and Hamilton’s previous problems. And references to Alonso’s innvolvments (Crashgate and Spygate).
Sometimes good people make poor decisions it doesn’t make them evil.
I look forward to hearing a statement from Alonso sometime in the future, but if it doesn’t satisfy my taste for public outpourings of contrition then perhaps I should blame the press officer or the contractual obligations and not Alonso himself.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
18th September 2009, 8:32
When you put a car into a wall at 100mph+ on a confined stretch of track with other cars passing by and spectators and marshals in the vicinity, you cannot possibly predict the consequences.
We all know how relatively small the piece of debris Massa hit was. If something similar had happened here the consequences would have been appalling.
richard s
19th September 2009, 6:43
Yes ok it is impossible to predict with complete certainty, but you can have a fair idea of what is likely to happen. And you can bet all innvolved considered the scenario very carefully. (OK at a minimum Piquet but I hope all as it was a conspiracy and so needed planning)
Piquet was travelling at about 80mph, coming off a slow series of bends and onto the start of the straight, when he used his throttle to rotate his car off the racing line into a wall. The impact was taken by the (tethered) rear tire and suspension, and there he stopped. There was no tumbling trail of carnage rolling down the track into the paths of the other cars.
Massa was hit by debris, dropped from a car travelling at more than 150mph. That was a most horrific and emotionally charged incident, but it is off the scale as compared to what actually happened to Piquet and I think what most probably could have happened in Singapore.
The case for the prosecution and the moral high-ground is that he (they) endangered the people around him and that is certainly true. But I see there being a low probability of having any collateral damage.
The main point is that they manipulated the result of a race. For me the safety aspect is a distant second.
cheers
mp4-19b
17th September 2009, 3:46
The thing that upsets me the most is that the guilty conspirators are going to go unpunished :( & Alonso somehow manages to wriggle his way out of tight situations. Jamez Allen said on his blog that Flav & Pat will not be present at the hearing on Monday, can you please confirm this Keith? Isn’t that contempt of court?
Dougal
17th September 2009, 6:27
This isn’t a real court, with power to compel or imprison. It’s a pretendy FIA court in which the F1 teams have agreed to accept rulings. It’s only real power relates to the championships, such as F1, which it controls.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
17th September 2009, 9:00
I’m not sure – were Nigel Stepney and Mike Coughlan present when they got their bans? I don’t think they were.
Oliver
17th September 2009, 4:11
Alonso can’t openly renounce the win yet, it will just further sink Renault.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
18th September 2009, 8:33
If he’s genuinely innocent then why should he care about protecting them? They’ve jeopardised his reputation, as I think many of the responses here make clear.
Gusto
17th September 2009, 4:22
Who cares what the `FIA Record Book` says, my book says Hamilton Won the Belgium 2008 GP.
Gusto
17th September 2009, 4:41
And should of Won in Valancia when a 25 second penalty turned into a 10000 Euro fine…. Oh No I`am recalibrating last years results… doesn`t matter though…tell that to Bruno Senna.
Harv's
17th September 2009, 4:48
im with you on that one completely!, I think the first two rules in the f1 rule book should be
1) All position changes (for a car gaining a position) has to be done within the white lines i.e. on track.
2) A driver can only be win a race if he leads at some point during the race.
Antifia
17th September 2009, 8:30
Concerning the “some point” of rule #2: shouldn’t it be specified as the finish line of the last lap? And with a caveat: As long as you raced withing the rules – otherwise the next guy takes the honours.
hey wait a minute….
Harv's
18th September 2009, 3:57
I know what you are refering to, but what were McLaren meant to do at that piont, charlie whiting and race control cleared hamiltons move and said it was alright, then Hamilton was punished under a rule that was created after the race finished!
Thats what my “Rule 2” is about.
AP
17th September 2009, 4:23
should rename this place Planet F1…
Some of the comments and stories are complete juvenile illiterate rubbish.
Waiting for the next LH is the great driver ever born thread / comment…..
FLIG
17th September 2009, 8:22
I was thinking exactly the same thing. After LH was champion, this place got filled with ignorant babbling.
bad_whippet
17th September 2009, 11:17
FLIG and AP…
I’m not sure the problem is with Lewis Hamilton or his supporters, but people like you who are intent on starting a war of words between fans.
Your comments do nothing to raise the standard of debate (as Keith rightly posted), but insense LH fans to bite.
F1Fanatic remains the best F1 blog/site on the internet and it’s majority of fans/subscribers offer nothing but informed and educated discussion.
I put it to you that it’s comments like “juvenile illiterate rubbish” and “ignorant babbling” that clog this blog up with irrelevant posts.
Go back to PlanetF1 please.
FLIG
17th September 2009, 14:24
Never been there, really. Been here for a long long time.
bad_whippet
17th September 2009, 14:59
Then stay here and stay constructive ;)
PlanetF1 sucks. Almost as much as Briatore.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
17th September 2009, 8:54
And you thought that by posting a comment labelling people ‘juvenile’ you might raise the standard of debate?
This article isn’t even relevant to Lewis Hamilton so why are you dragging him into this?
Why don’t you say why you don’t agree with me and then we can have a proper discussion.
AP
17th September 2009, 12:48
I’m sorry Keith, my apologies, your right in pointing out my stupid heat of the moment post.
Mostly becoming really frustrated with F1 more so than anything…!!!
That is from a long time fan.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
17th September 2009, 15:06
Well I can sympathise with that. I am more than a little sick of these scandals.
Diogenes
17th September 2009, 15:22
There’s no need to apologize for the truth AP.
Keith deliberately writes these rabble rousing stories to stir up the debate and then adopts a holier than thou, above the fray attitude in all his responses.
sato113
17th September 2009, 17:46
then perhaps you want to leave this blog then?
David BR
17th September 2009, 21:25
Really unfair. I’m continually impressed by Keith’s stance, which encourages open, considered and informed debate here on the site, while expressing his own views when he feels he’s reached a conclusion, but leaving things open when he himself is unsure. That’s really difficult to achieve – try finding this kind of balance elsewhere on the web. I disagree with some of his opinions (though with a fraction of his knowledge!) but I truly admire anyone who’s generous with his time and ideas, and shows a great deal of care in how he uses the admin powers at his disposal. That’s rare on the web and in life in general.
David BR
17th September 2009, 21:27
ps. reply to Diogenes, not sato113
S Hughes
18th September 2009, 11:02
David BR
I agree and usually the debate is intelligent and informed, with a few unfortunate exceptions.
Diogenes
18th September 2009, 15:58
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/09/18/did-more-foul-play-by-renault-scupper-schumacher-in-the-2006-title-decider/
Williams4ever
17th September 2009, 12:38
You are so right…. Alonso Should Renounce Singapore GP “win”, Couldn’t there be a ridiculous suggestion than this. I wonder if the author would have applied the same rationale if British(read Hamilton) was in this situation. At one end everyone agrees based on the evidences produced that Alonso is as innocent party in this situation as rest of the 19 drivers on the grid, so why he should be renouncing the result of the race, the result is what it is. If the entire Singapore incidence is so shameful for the sport, by the same rationale the author should request all the drivers, teams, sponsors, fans to RENOUNCE from the event.
Similar Article written by Author last week about Karun Chandok makes me feel that more than healthy discussion on F1, intention of author is to stir the pot, just like what PlanetF1 and crash doh net do elsewhere.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
17th September 2009, 15:10
Yes I would.
And yet you never bothered to mention it at the time. Why not post a comment on there explain why you don’t like it and I’ll get back to you?
Williams4ever
17th September 2009, 15:29
If you revisit the post there were posters, who had pointed that out, that the post was Non-Subject just like this one, this article is exactly having same effect, there it was ethnic slander here its Alonso-Vs-Non Alonso Fans.
What Alonso should do is his business and not ours to tell him. If you agree that he is innocent in this incident “based on the evidences” he has every right to accept FIA decision of not altering the race results (If FIA does so decide).
Your expectation from Alonso is like asking Kim Clisters to renounce her recent win in US Open because Other Participant (Serena Williams) defaulted the Semi-final match. Because now the Win has become tainted because of someone else’s wrong doing
sato113
17th September 2009, 17:55
i get what you’re saying Williams4ever- that if Alonso never knew about the race fix, then he should deserve that win. But as it stands, his team cheated (behind his back?) to make him win. and as a double world champion he should have the courage to say ‘I won’t accept this win’ now.
I think it is Renault (more specifically Flavio) who should renounce this win.
but of course if Alonso knew, then shame on him.
James G
17th September 2009, 19:26
Williams4ever, you wrote:
“Your expectation from Alonso is like asking Kim Clisters to renounce her recent win in US Open because Other Participant (Serena Williams) defaulted the Semi-final match”.
No, Williams4ever, it’s not like that at all, because Serena Williams and Kim Clisters are not part of a team. It’s more like asking Kim Clisters to renounce her recent win in the US Open because her trainer sneaked into Serena William’s changing room and drugged her water bottle.
Williams4ever
17th September 2009, 21:02
@JamesG – Its subjective interpretation on Track “All Drivers” are Competitors from that perspective if other participants stupid action is “Tarnishing” who incidentally is in his team as well.. why should a innocent victim give his hard earned (assuming he didn’t slack as he wasn’t aware of this sub-plot)victory.
His situation is tricky if he takes that higher ground extends a olive branch, his detractors would rile him on that as well.
E.G – Remember how the detractors responded to Hamilton’s Special Conference in Sepang.
Remember how people responded to embarassed Shumacher’s attempt to push the trophy in Barichello’s hands in Austria. I am personally biggest detractor on Schumi but now Schumi can claim the same thing, Team conspired the “Switch” he was unaware of it. So Does Ross Brawn put on Chopping block for the Austria’02 in-discretion which was again case of manipulating outcome of race???