F1 Fanatic round-up 15/7/2010

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Here’s the Thursday round-up:

Links

Behind the scenes at the British GP (BBC)

“After Rosberg’s podium there were celebrations in the Mercedes garage the like of which I hadn’t seen since Brawn GP won the championship in Brazil last year: and just for finishing third!”

2012 car strategy embraces innovation (IndyCar)

IndyCar has picked its new chassis for the future.

Comment of the day

Lots of people are recommending Silverstone’s new Becketts grandstand as a viewing spot for the 2011 British Grand Prix. Here’s what Richard Brown had to say:

My thinking beforehand was the hope that you could see plenty of Becketts, as the grandstand had been moved forward, but also, in contrast with what my father felt, a lot of the infield section, as I didn’t remember there ever been a intersecting ridge or mound of some sort. And how I was proved wrong – a truly incredible view – one could see the run up the Becketts, Becketts itself, even the run-down to Hangar Straight if you looked hard enough, then the cars returned into view through the exit of Abbey, the loop, and a fantastic long view of the Wellington Straight – truly awesome. Seats E 56 & 7.

To think where that corner’s seating has come since the days when I sat in a solitary grandstand on the other side of the track for the 2000 Grand Prix. Fully recommend it to you guys, that will be tough to get again for 2011 definitely.
Richard Brown

From the forum

The strange story of Ron Dennis: Saboteur.

Happy birthday!

Happy birthday to JV!

On this day in F1

Nigel Mansell made his first F1 ‘retirement’ on this day 20 years ago. He declared he was quitting the sport after retiring from the British Grand Prix in the middle of a frustrating season for Ferrari.

He continued to drive for Ferrari for the rest of the year and eventually was persuaded to re-join Williams for 1991.

Here’s Mansell on his way to pole position for that year’s race. Not quite as many corners on the circuit back then!

Author information

Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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54 comments on “F1 Fanatic round-up 15/7/2010”

  1. I too can vouch for the awesomeness of the Becketts grandstand. I originally planned to get Pit Straight tickets for the 3rd time running but they had sold out. Took a gamble on the new layout being used for the F1 and went for Becketts instead and since Sunday I’ve been patting myself on the back non stop. Here’s some of my photos:
    http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=455780&id=908615458&l=ee6133bf6e

    1. I think the BRDC know how awesome Becketts is as well as it’s up to Platinum status for next year.

    2. I was lucky enough to blag a seat in the Club Silverstone grandstand at becketts on the saturday. I was completely blown away by the amazing views of so much of the circuit. I would completely recommend the location for anyone wandering where to sit, and as soon as I have enough money I am booking mine for next year!

  2. Keith you legend.

    I have NEVER been able to find a lap of the old Silverstone, having heard so much about it.

    There was hardly any corners! I can imagine how incredible that must have been to drive.

    That has made my day now, lol.

  3. Pre 1991 Silverstone was pretty boring. It was just a collection of straights connected by square corners. Silverstone seems to be one of the few circuits that was actually improved when it was overhauled, both in 1991 and 2010.

    Can anyone think of any others?

    1. Cunning Stunt 8
      15th July 2010, 1:57

      It depends how you look at it but I reckon Le Mans is better since the chicanes. I say this because when i’m driving the 70’s version in rFactor I can only be bothered with about 4 laps because the Mulsanne gets so boring, but the newer version I have more fun on. Although having said that, if I was driving it in real life I might have a different opinion.

      I also reckon the shortening of Interlagos has made it better as well.

      But wow you’re right though, looking through the list of Formula 1 tracks there really aren’t many that were improved.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_circuits

      1. I reckon Le Mans is better since the chicanes.

        Don’t make me come over there! I loved the old Mulsanne.

    2. Pre 1991 Silverstone boring!!! Wash your mouth out. It was the fastest GP track at the time .REAL drivers loved it. Jones and Regazzoni lapped so fast in 1980 in the FW07 that the times they were doing were not listed in the program….the organizers didn’t think anybody could lap that fast. Hamilton, Webber and Kubica would kill to take their current cars around the REAL Silverstone!
      Boring…wow, now I have read everything.

      1. At one end of the spectrum are oval tracks which most readers of this site probably think are boring. I agree.

        On the other hand, I saw Piquet and Mansell in 1987 at Silverstone in quali, taking Stowe flat at the end of Hangar straight and that was simply awesome. Wish I’d seen the race from there, but instead I had the great view from the Luffield/Woodcote area.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_British_Grand_Prix

        Bumped into Murray Walker behind the stands on the Friday that year, said hello and he nearly choked to death on the apple he was chewing as he tried to respond. We had a brief chat about requisite camera skills for filming F1 or some such irrelevancy.

        1. Then before I got sidetracked, I meant to say the other end of the spectrum are street circuits like Monaco, Detroit of years past, which feature little competitive passing (despite great tradition in Monaco’s case) and arguably lead to boring races. Old Silverstone was nearer an oval than the average track these days, but it was fun.

          1. The oval comparison is something I was going to bring up too, because there was a good quote from Patrick Head, that said it all really.

            He said it used to be “our Indianapolis” before the changes in 1991.

            Will we ever see the likes of such tracks in F1 again? We can only hope.

            Also, thanks for the hilarious Murray anecdote. :D

        2. At one end of the spectrum are oval tracks which most readers of this site probably think are boring. I agree.

          I don’t:

          Why F1 should race on ovals

          Might have to do a poll on that some time soon though.

          1. Let’s vote!
            One oval in a series is very different from Tony George’s late Indy Car predilection for nothing but ovals. Watching that series here in the US became tedious and audiences plummeted (other factors were involved). I’d love to see F1 cars going round Michigan or Indianapolis. Once. If they’re designed to be safe enough for the potential crashes, which Kubica and Webber have persuaded me they probably are.

          2. Bring on the Vote Keith. I have always enjoyed the CART series of before the split. The sheer speed of the car on those ovals was a nice difference from those city tracks and road courses.

            If not a full oval F1 race, i would love to have a special event where the F1 drivers would compete in Indycar equipment on a oval.

            Or maybe the Austin GP can at least bring a copy of the banked Monza corner into the circuit to give us some of the exitement. Hellmund apparently wants to put a lot of exiting corners from other circuits into it, as well as having about 100 ft. of height difference.

    3. Hockenheim.

      I jest, of course.

      1. The long “chicaned” straight at Hockenheim was boring. The only fun was when they would call out the awesemo numbers of the top speeds. Still you’d be waiting for half a lap for the cars to come out of the trees and finally start doing something again.

  4. Cunning Stunt 8
    15th July 2010, 2:07

    Oh god that Indycar looks ugly. I’ve always found American open wheelers pretty good looking (especially the CART cars from around 2002), but by golly that looks terrible.

    I’ve never really thought much about this before but I think championships where the cars look good are easier to watch than ones with uglier cars but better racing.

    1. They had a lot worse to choose from. See the Delta wing in this blog. Very Speed Racer.
      http://237sports.wordpress.com/2010/02/10/indycar-2012/

      1. Speed has a better image of what it looks like: http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-2012-car-revealed/

        Looks like they’ve put style before function. Personally I think it’s fugly.

    2. I was hoping the BAT design would be chosen. I liked the philosophy included in their design to make for good and safe racing and a flexible package where the teams would be able to do part of the assembly as well.

      But i am glad they did not choose the extreme delta wing desing or the quite too futuristic SWIFT car with almost covered wheels. The think i liked about that car was the idea with LEDs lighting up to show information about the car.

      1. According to the pictures on SPEED (see my link above^), the Dallara will actually covers the rear wheels more than the Swift design…

      2. Personally I was hoping for Lola, but only because I’d quite like to go and work for them. Admittedly I think the extra staff they’d have been taking on wouldn’t have been based at Huntingdon but in the US, still, it couldn’t have hurt…

    3. Yeah it’s a bit first-generation A1 Grand Prix isn’t it? I was hoping for something a bit more… well, second-generation A1 Grand Prix!

      1. Isn’t the idea that unique aero kits are made? While it doesn’t look so great now those are just Dallara concepts and, although price limited, the cars could look very different from that, an for once from each other.

        Dallara provides the inner chassis, aero kits can be swapped about.

        1. I had a closer look at what they are going to do with the series. It looks pretty interesting and something F1 but maybe even more GP2 / GP3 should have a close look at.

          Currently it is really hard for a team to actually build the f1 car themselves from scratch (Wirth might be in a good position by having built sportscars). So what if at GP3 level the team would have some options of optimizing say front or rear wings or engine covers. Then at GP2 level they could have a look at giving freedom close to what IndyCar is doing. Such a team might be pretty well prepared to go into F1 with experience of building their own components.
          And if some of the current competitors would then be allowed to deliver the basic chassis for a reasonable price, it might make for a more open and naturally developing racing scene.
          For F1 cars, i think a lot of parts should be freer to enable more perspective for development instead of having less scope for that.

  5. I’m wondering if the IndyCAr plan wouldn’t have been so bad in Formula 1, particularly for the new teams. I think a case of getting someone to design a basic chassis and making it available to the teams – who would then have the option and the ability to fit custom aerodynamic parts – would have been both cheap and viable.

    1. The only problem with the Indycar plan is that any team or company that develops any new body work has to make it available to all the other Indycar teams, which thereby would remove any want for teams to develop new body work.

      Why would any team bother to spend time and money developing new body work to give their car a competitive advantage, when they just have to make it available to all other teams anyway?

      Without that rule though I would agree that have a rolling chassis with custom body work would probably help open F1 to new teams. I guess the only problem occur if cars with the spec chassis ended up being faster than the cars built by the established teams.

      1. I’d say take the rolling chasis of the Redbull, supply it to the teams. Leave the wings, engine bay, engine cover, and airduct open for development. I’d like to see a minimum and maximum front wing width that is in a range of about 3 cm on each side. This would allow teams to run a bigger wing at high downforce tracks and a smaller one at low downforce tracks, while still making sure they’re all within a similar spec.

      2. Why would any team bother to spend time and money developing new body work to give their car a competitive advantage, when they just have to make it available to all other teams anyway?

        Because the rules would be written in such a way that if you’re buying kit from another team, then you can only run the previous year’s specification. And what’s to say the parts even have to be for sale? I’m talking about a standardised central component – basic chassis, survival cell, floor and diffuser – that cannot be modified, but teams will be able to add their own bodywork. No sale neccessary.

    2. I’ve often thought about making the nose, monococque, and suspension assemblies the same across the teams. Then leaving the wings, engine area, engine cover, and airduct to open development per each team. Personally, I’d take Redbull’s current monocoque, nose, and suspension and have everyone build off of it.

      1. Instead of the Indycar system, there should be available an approved tub that the teams can opt to use. Therefore, the new teams can straight away get started on the rest of the car design, without having to worry about designing and then crash testing the tub. This will be a pretty good start for the new teams, without ending up with cars that are all identical.
        This will also mean there is no delay or risk for new teams that their tub won’t pass the tests, and ensures the safety of the drivers.
        Teams could chose whether to use it or design their own. New teams are liekly to take the head start, established teams likely to go on their own.

  6. Mercedes know that’s the best they can do as they don’t have a car which can win a race, but all they need is Schumacher to raise his game as if he don’t support the team by scoring points then the team will be in trouble to keep the 4th place in the championship from Renault.

  7. JV – trust that is not Jacques Villeneuve

  8. dear god, the Indy Car design is ugly as sin D:

    Give me the CART cars of the 90’s.

  9. A little bit embarrasing “joking” by Ron Dennis. I am sure he will pay for the damaged equipment and send very formally worded excuses to the BBC crew (and maybe to EJ as well) in the next days.

    Interesting background there, having Ron attend with a FOM pass instead of one from McLaren. Is Bernie tightening those cards up for the teams that much or is it about something else?

    1. Unplugging it would’ve been funny. Cutting it was a bit extreme.

  10. That behind the scenes article is nice. I liked the background to the Mercedes piece.
    Nothing really new about Red Bull, surely Horner must have understood it would be better to do something like throwing the coin in public, if it was not possible to kindly ask Webber to agree with giving it to Vettel and honestly say so himself.
    I have a feeling Horner is pretty close to Webber, but finds his emotions in contrast with his job as Red Bull team principle doing what the owner wants and is afraid to tell Webber as he new very well what the Aussie would make of it.

  11. I’ve got a feeling Mercedes might relapse into their performance in the bad old Honda days, they’ve been getting steadily slower since the start of last season.

  12. I think an opinion poll on oval racing in F1 is a good idea Keith.

    Indy car has started doing more street circuits and challanging track layouts as opposed to just ovals, F1 has always done chalanging tracks and street circuits, maybe they should go back to at least one oval per year.

  13. AMuS is reporting that the FIA has narrowed the entry list down to three potential entrants: Cypher, Epsilon Euskadi or (wait for it), Villeneuve F1! That’s right, apparently Jacques Villeneuve is looking to join Alain Prost, Jackie Stewart and Emerson Fittipaldi in being a World Champion with his own team.

    Also, Raikkonwn has confirmed he’l be sticking in the WRC for 2011 at least.

    1. You forgot Graham Hill!

    2. So if Villeneuve joint Cypher with their sponsors they might have a pretty decent chance of getting a american team up and working for next year. Maybe buy the toyota chassis and/or knowhow to make sure they manage in time. Then have a look at some of the USF1 technical ideas for developments and it might work.
      Let pay driver Villeneuve drive with some young american as well and get a decent test/development guy in there to make sure if one of those 2 will not be up to the job.

      Epsilon Euskadi looks very good in the tech department, but i suppose they would need to have a look at the toyota car as well, if not buying tech support from another team (like FI has with McLaren).

      1. The TF110 will never race. It will be obsolete. You can’t just stick a single-plane diffuser on it and expect it to run – doing so will compromise it because the entire car is built around the diffuser.

        Also, it’s unlikely to suggest Villeneuve would join Cypher. There’s been nothing to suggest they might, since this news is only jsut breaking.

        And I was wrong about Epsilon. AMuS is reporting Cypher, Villeneuve and an un-named third team are on the shortlist. Blame a dodgy Google Translate.

        1. I was not suggesting Villeneuve would actually plan or want to join Cypher, PM. Just think he would probably stand a chance to make it only if they would join up.

          As we know Epsilon Euskadi did join the bidding proces, do you think they might be the unnamed team, or would they have pulled out in the meantime? Maybe even the FIA might have ignored their bid.
          I am not very hopefull this will be less suprising than hearing about the Campos and Manor bids being chosen last year over Lola and Prodrive and others.

  14. Joe Saward hints at a part of the background to HRT’s Senna hickup in Britain. http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/07/13/senna-yamamoto-carabante-and-kolles/

    Seems some foolishly resent mails may have figuered in the story somewhere (apparently info from German media)

    1. Here’s a piece going further into the background (http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns22439.html).
      It seems that what we speculated on, Bernie supporting Chandhok in a way was pretty close to reality.
      One of the things about Kolles is, it seems he is more interested into the building a racing organisation and technical department than actually building a relationship with drivers. It might be the way to go for a end of grid team, but it’s pretty tough on those guys.

  15. I think one reason F1 on ovals wont work right now is because the engines will basically be at full throttle maybe 95% or more of a lap.
    Its not a problem when you dont rev to 18000rpm.
    Also if they only do one oval race per season, it wont be cost effective building a chassis specially for oval racing.

  16. I wanted to share this table I made.
    http://i.imagehost.org/0150/f1F_PREDICT_points.jpg
    It’s a table to look up how much points you’ve earned if you now the number top five drivers and top 5 driver positions you’ve got right.
    Keith, you could put this in the prediction championship posts? If its good enough, probably not, because I made it on Paint. :D

    1. Can’t Slate it, it works :)

    1. That’s the video of the interview posted here: Alonso: we’ll catch Red Bull in Germany

  17. It looks like everyone enjoyed Silverstone very much this year. Great input from the fans here. Thank you all for sharing, and Keith for enabling this.

    I think the track design shows these guys at Populous gave it a good deal of thought before making the design. I found this discussion with the designers on James Allen’s F1 blog (http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/07/silverstone-debrief-a-fan-posts-a-question-the-architect-replies/).
    Nice video and i like the actual designer reacting to comments from the fans (will we ever see that from Tilke GmbH?), they really care.

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