Fernando Alonso is already a two-times world champion; with better luck, Jody Scheckter might have been.
In his first full season with Tyrrell in 1974, Scheckter placed third in the championship, ten points behind winner Emerson Fittipaldi.
As Tyrrell went up a blind alley with the six-wheeled P34, Scheckter moved to new team Wolf for 1977. he nearly ‘did a Button’ in the championship after winning the first race of the year, but finished the year runner-up to Niki Lauda’s Ferrari.
Two years later Scheckter had a Ferrari of his own and although he and team mate Gilles Villeneuve were closely matched, Scheckter had the edge. Late in the season the team ordered Villeneuve to let Scheckter claim the title.
Had Alonso won this year’s world championship he would have emulated Scheckter by winning the title in his first season for Ferrari. But Alonso already has a pair of titles under his belt from his Renault days.
As well as finishing runner-up this year, he tied on points with second-placed Lewis Hamilton in 2007, a single point behind champion Kimi R??ikk??nen.
Which of these drivers should go through to the next round of the Champion of Champions? Vote for which you think was best below and explain who you voted for and why in the comments.
| Jody Scheckter | Fernando Alonso | |
 |
 |
|
| Titles | 1979 | 2005, 2006 |
| Second in title year/s | Gilles Villeneuve | Kimi R??ikk??nen, Michael Schumacher |
| Teams | McLaren, Tyrrell, Wolf, Ferrari | Minardi, Renault, McLaren, Ferrari |
| Notable team mates | Patrick Depailler, Gilles Villeneuve | Giancarlo Fisichella, Lewis Hamilton, Felipe Massa |
| Starts | 112 | 158 |
| Wins | 10 (8.93%) | 26 (16.46%) |
| Poles | 3 (2.68%) | 20 (12.66%) |
| Modern points per start1 | 8.00 | 10.58 |
| % car failures2 | 18.75 | 10.76 |
| Modern points per finish3 | 9.85 | 11.86 |
| Notes | Partial season as McLaren’s third driver in 1973 | Debuted for Minardi in 2001 then spent a year testing for Renault before making race return |
| Spent three seasons with Tyrrell before giving Wolf a win in their first race in 1977 | Back-to-back titles for Renault in 2005 and 2006 | |
| Won the 1979 title for Ferrari after Gilles Villeneuve was instructed not to pass him at Monza | Formerly the youngest ever world champion | |
| Bio | Jody Scheckter | Fernando Alonso |
1 How many points they scored in their career, adjusted to the 2010 points system, divided by the number of races they started
2 The percentage of races in which they were not classified due to a mechanical failure
3 How many points they scored in their career, adjusted to the 2010 points system, divided by the number of starts in which they did not suffer a race-ending mechanical failure
Which was the better world champion driver?
- Fernando Alonso (79%)
- Jody Scheckter (21%)
Total Voters: 718
Loading ...You need an F1 Fanatic account to vote. Register an account here or read more about registering here.
Read the F1 Fanatic Champion of Champions introduction for more information and remember to check back tomorrow for the next round.
You can still vote in the previous rounds of Champion of Champions. Find them all below:
Champion of Champions
- Ayrton Senna voted Champion of Champions by F1 Fanatic readers
- Champion of Champions in stats
- Champion of Champions Final: Senna vs Schumacher
- Ayrton Senna vs Juan Manuel Fangio
- Michael Schumacher vs Alain Prost
- Ayrton Senna vs Jack Brabham
- Juan Manuel Fangio vs Jackie Stewart
- Alain Prost vs Niki Lauda
- Jim Clark vs Michael Schumacher
- Jack Brabham vs Lewis Hamilton
Images ?? Ford (Scheckter), Renault/LAT (Alonso)
Atticus (@atticus-2)
2nd January 2011, 12:13
Alonso has been more consistent than Jody. WDC in 2005 and 2006 – albeit Raikkonen in the McLaren and Schumacher in the Ferrari was faster for long periods respectively and arguably only lost the titles because of car failures.
Anyway 2nd in 2007 and 2010. The second half of 2010 was simply marvelous with only one big mistake in 7-8 races. That’s 4 top two finishes in 6 years. Spectacular.
infy (@infy)
2nd January 2011, 12:36
Agreed.
BasCB (@bascb)
2nd January 2011, 14:40
And his drives in the uncompetative Renault in 2008/2009 were pretty good as well, just the car was bad and the tactics sometimes horrible.
Tom
2nd January 2011, 14:58
Keith – Alonso wasn’t second behind Raikkonen.
John
2nd January 2011, 16:03
But Raikkonen was second behind Alonso as the piece is implying
Felipe Bomeny (@portugoose)
2nd January 2011, 16:29
Sure, Scheckter may have had more car failures, but compare 3 poles to 20 poles. That’s quite a difference, that’s why I picked Alonso.
BillHicks
2nd January 2011, 19:46
Alonso is a dirty cheat and everybody knows it… Why would any self respecting sportsman vote for a cheat!
slr
2nd January 2011, 21:05
Because people have different opinions.
David A
2nd January 2011, 23:23
And because people recognise that a couple of dodgy instances are not enough to call someone a cheat, when they are a bloody good driver.
Fixy (@)
9th January 2011, 21:05
That’s the most notable difference in my opinion.
Tom
3rd January 2011, 22:12
Ah – woops
Fixy (@)
9th January 2011, 21:07
Raikkonen 2nd behind Alonso 1st in 2005
Alonso 2nd behind Raikkonen 1st in 2007
Slr (@slr)
2nd January 2011, 12:37
Alonso’s title win in 2006 in my opinion was one of the greatest championship triumphs ever. He gave himself a good lead early on, but then Ferrari caught up and I think Alonso did a great job dealing with the pressure from Schumacher.
Scheckter’s stats in general are not as good as Alonso’s though he looked like a great driver. But these days everyone is talking about his team mate Villeneuve, though dare I say, his death is probably one of the reasons why.
Scheckter was great, but he never took Formula One by storm like Alonso has done.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
2nd January 2011, 12:41
Agree on 2006 – one of the best championship wins I’ve seen.
Soumya Banerjee
5th January 2011, 16:00
What was so great about a lucky win resulting from an untimely engine failure? The only reason ALO won in 2005 and 2006 was because he had a more reliable car. Kimi and Michael,and Lewis in 2007 all outdrove him.
PT
6th January 2011, 18:36
Soumya,
Alonso won the title on both 2005 and 2006 with an inferior car. That does say something. Din’t you watch Imola 2005?
Alonso stopped the Schumacher & Ferrari dominance and inaugurated a new phase in Formula 1. That in itself is a reason to place him among the greats. What was great about 2006 was that though Schumacher was much faster Alonso was close behind, never giving up. That’s how championships are won, at least in Formula 1.
David-A (@david-a)
7th January 2011, 3:58
The 2006 Renault car wasn’t inferior.
BasCB (@bascb)
2nd January 2011, 14:42
I agree with you on that 2006 championship. It had the mass damper stripped, the FIA rallying for Ferrari on several occasions and Alonso and the team knew he was going to McLaren in 2007 from even before the season started. He really did in for Schumi at Ferrari.
rob
2nd January 2011, 16:07
On Villeneuve – he had already become an iconic figure before his death. He was seen as the fastest natural driver on the grid.
Ral (@)
3rd January 2011, 0:01
But that doesn’t always help if it doesn’t come with the appropriately press-friendly demeanor. See for example Raikkonen ;)
DanielPT (@danielpt)
3rd January 2011, 11:40
Agreed, that is why my vote goes to Alonso…
chemakal
6th January 2011, 22:49
Totally agree. Great championship that year. My vote to Alonso for bringing down Schumacher’s and Ferrari’s reign in 05&06 with an inferior car and a FIA in love with the german.
David-A (@david-a)
7th January 2011, 3:59
In 2005 and 2006 MSC/Ferrari didn’t have the best car.
wasiF1 (@wasif1)
2nd January 2011, 12:39
Just like the first one it’s a one way battle. I think things will heat up on round two as we don’t know who is pairing whom in the second round.
Scribe (@scribe)
2nd January 2011, 17:29
I’d agree, Scheckter and Alonso can’t really be compared, I reckon Alonso will be remembered long after his era, Scheckter hasn’t really had a lasting impact.
Scribe
2nd January 2011, 20:55
woops, ment to say don’t really compare, Alonso just on another level.
Not like with Farina where the war robbed him of his best years, so his true potential was hidden from us.
TrueF1Grit (@truef1grit)
2nd January 2011, 12:40
Despite the modern points per available finish I feel Alonso was up against it more. Schumacher titles before his own made it difficult to touch the first place finish he longed for before his titles/Renault career. Alonso did more with the cars he had. And yes, like Atticus said, 4 top 2’s in 6 years. But then again to compare that Hamilton’s been in contention into the last race for 3 out of the 4 years, with 2 of those years in a convincing position.
Jonathan Wallcroft
2nd January 2011, 12:43
Surely Yoong and Piquet count as notable team mates for Alonso. But seriously i’m gonna back Alonso it took Scheckter 5 years to win his first title by which point Alonso’d won two. Also in those days Alonso didn’t need someone to move over for him to win unlike Scheckter.
sennaboy3
2nd January 2011, 14:48
This is a false accusation as Villeneuve was not asked to let Jody by in any races ie. Alonso & Massa…Furthermore, Gilles wouldn’t of heeded such a call anyway! Scheckter was a very good driver who decided to leave Grand Prix racing before it got the better of him.
BasCB (@bascb)
7th January 2011, 15:52
Here is a nice story report from Peter Windsor about some of the background to those two drivers paired at Ferrari http://www.theracedriver.com/2011/01/monaco-to-italy-with-gilles-villeneuve-and-jody-scheckter-spring-1979/
SVettel (@)
2nd January 2011, 18:00
cough, cough, Hockenheim 2010, cough, cough
RIISE (@riise)
2nd January 2011, 22:21
Cough, cough, Webber’s front wing, cough, cough.
Mack41 (@mack41)
3rd January 2011, 6:08
Yes, but he is saying when he won his two World Championships no one moved over/ordered not to pass
Cyclops_PL (@cyclops_pl)
2nd January 2011, 12:48
Not so one-sided as the first one, but still there’s a firm favorite – Alonso.
robk23 (@robk23)
2nd January 2011, 12:58
I voted for Scheckter, purely because he’s not Alonso.
Racehound
2nd January 2011, 13:06
wow….this is the kind of logic you should keep in football….F1 doesnt need this level of stupidity!!!
jeroen
2nd January 2011, 13:07
I don’t think that this is a popularity contest.
JustAnF1Fanatic (@justanf1fanatic)
2nd January 2011, 13:31
i agree i personally dont like alonso. yet you cant deny that hes a great driver one of the best in his time. this is not who you like the most but who is the best champion, and alonso has a large edge of scheckter
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
2nd January 2011, 14:09
This isn’t a popularity contest, it’s about who was the better driver.
robk23 (@robk23)
2nd January 2011, 14:24
I can only think that Alonso won in 2005 because McLaren had an unreliable car and Ferrari didn’t have their best machine either. 2006 was better but drivers champions from the old days just seem a bit more special than Alonso’s championships.
Kimster
3rd January 2011, 9:48
Ferrari didn’t win because the FIA gave Renault and McLaren (and the other Michelin cars) an advantage. Michelin already had a tyre that could last a whole race where Bridgestone had to start researching it just before the season started.
Todfod (@todfod)
3rd January 2011, 19:55
Come on …Ferrari had bridgestone make tailor made tyres for their #1 driver. Please come up with a better excuse.
David A
3rd January 2011, 21:50
Bridgestone did really mess up their tyres for 2005, as they didn’t adapt well to the regulations that year stating that tyres had to last a full race distance.
Scalextric (@scalextric)
2nd January 2011, 17:33
Better driver or better champion? There seems to be more that goes into winning championships than pure driving. There’s patience, consistency, ruthlessness, team politics. E.g., Button almost lost his massive lead in 2009 because he wilted under the pressure, some commentators asserted.
So I’m voting for one of my least favorite F1 personalities (ALO) because he’s won in multiple ways. I remember Scheckter, but not as a dominant threat to win consistently.
Jay Menon
3rd January 2011, 1:07
I agree with Keith 100%.
This is not a popularity contest.
Alonso is probably not one of the nicest guys on the grid, but he is undoubtedly on top of his game, his stats speak for themselves, no arguments there.
These drivers are not on the F1 grid to make friends, they are there to win races and championships and its sad to say that in the current world of competitve sport, in order to be the best, you have to make some unpopular moves along the way.
We will talk of Alonso v Hamilton and possibly v Vettel for years to come, just like how we still talk about Senna v Prost. It just shows that these drivers are up there with the greats.
Alonso v Schekter…sorry Jody, Alonso takes the cake here.
Keep in mind that Alonso is still the youngest double world champion ever!
Mike
3rd January 2011, 9:26
I 100% agree, I personally can’t stand Alonso, He’s a dirty foul tempered arrogant person in my opinon.
But I think he is clearly the greater of the two, When I can remember my password and be bothered to log in, I’m not going to vote for Alonso because I like him. Because I don’t. I’m going to vote for Alonso because I believe that he is the greater champion.
SVettel (@)
2nd January 2011, 18:00
Agreed
LHJBFTW (@lhjbftw)
2nd January 2011, 13:00
Scheckter looked like he had more of a hard time getting to the top, he did well with Tyrrell and won with a 6 wheeled car. with wolf he had 8 different chaises in 2 seasons. And he beat Gilles Villeneuve which is a very impressive achievement. I know Alonso will win this so I voted for Scheckter because I don’t think he deserves to be beaten by miles which is what I suspect will happen.
bosyber (@bosyber)
2nd January 2011, 15:14
That is pretty good reasoning for going with Scheckter, I agree that it feels as if Alonso had it a bit easier getting to the top, and beating Villeneuve is indeed a very notable achievement.
I have to say, it would be hard to swallow losing Alonso in the first round though. Sure in 2005 others lost a lot of points through unreliability, but still, Alonso was there to pick them up. 2006 – I didn’t watch a lot of that season at the time, but have seen most of the races since, and it was really a very good season for Alonso, as I saw others remark, he really beat Schumacher/Ferrari and they knew it. 2007 he was very fast as well, and would have taken that title, if it hadn’t been for Hamilton. 2008 he did well to get the most out of the car, even if we forget about Singapore, he still won a race and didn’t give up during the season. So I
But maybe I just have more images of Alonso doing impressive things than I have for Scheckter.
Scribe (@scribe)
2nd January 2011, 17:31
Alonso got to the top so quickly because of what he did in the Minardi, he drove that car so far beyond what it was capable of that he got major attention for it.
He was lucky that the big team who sat up to take notice started challenging for championships two years after he got the drive.
Jay Menon
3rd January 2011, 0:58
Scribe,
Alonso didnt just end up at Renault and got handed a great car, he was testing for them since 02 and raced two seasons before getting the championship wining car unlike some of his contemporaries..its fair to say that he had a hand in developing the cars that won him the title.
Scribe
3rd January 2011, 2:14
Your point being?
Didn’t say he didn’t help with development. Are you saying he single handedly took Renault too front running status? I hope not. All I’m saying is he picked the right team, he might have ended up at Toyota or something before Renault.
Jay Menon
3rd January 2011, 5:00
There is no driver on the grid or in history that has taken a car single handedly to the front of the grid. This is a very subjective matter.
Some would say that Michael Schumacher single handedly transformed Ferrari to World Champions from where they were in the 90s, obviously that cant be entirely true, because he was just a very important component in a team full of very talented people.
Same can be said about Alonso. He was in a team with the right people and he would have been an important component in the development of the car. So yes, Alonso and everyone in that team developed the car to a Championship winning one.
When you say he “picked”, what do you mean by that? I dont think he had a parade of race seats to pick from at the time, he was driving for Minardi, and with Flavio as his manager, the move was only natural. He never got handed a car that could win races from day one, he worked at it with the team and eventually got his first win at the Hungararing in 03.
Simon Duck (@simon-duck)
2nd January 2011, 13:03
I had to go for Alonso. Even if you don’t like the guy, I don’t think you can deny he is one of the best (IMO the best) on the field at the moment. I like the match-up as they have both used tea orders to win, hopefully taking away the bias, or so you thought :p
jeroen
2nd January 2011, 13:08
Alonso. Scheckter was a very good driver but not one of the greatest ever. Alonso might very well be one someday.
Daniel
2nd January 2011, 13:23
I expected this to be closer than the vote is indicating, in only because Schekter beat Villenuve in the same car. However, whenever you see one of these types of ‘all-time best’ things the moderns always do better than I expect.
S.J.M (@sjm)
2nd January 2011, 13:34
Its harder then it looks, despite Jody’s 1 WDC to Nandos 2, im trying to judge (all of these polls) evenly due to the varying rules/standards of the day, not to mention i wasnt born when Scheckter was driving.
So, from the statistics… ive gone for Alonso. Ive considered them all and he nudges it. But credit to Scheckter, he won a title in the decade of Lauda, Hunt, Peterson and Villeneuve which is a great achievement in itself.
Keith (or someone please), didnt drivers of the 70s have to discount 2 race (points) results from their final standings, has this been included in Jody’s Points/modern points stats that you’ve included??
Daniel
2nd January 2011, 13:47
I don’t think it has. Keith states in the introductory article that he has used the modern points system.
I agree with you that this changes things a little. If you can only improve your points tally by winning, then why not try that impossible move? Because someone might not take that into account in an ‘all-time best driver’ poll 40 years later isn’t an idea that crosses your mind.
In the early days of the championship you also got a bonus point for fastest lap.
Some seasons there were far fewer people to beat.
In the days of 10-6-4-3-2-1 you would probably be more aggressive at the pointy end than in the days of 10-8-6-4-3-2-1 too, just applying modern points doesn’t take these things into account.
This is why I thought that what would be better was a percentage of points possible. If you do this per race and per season you get a better picture. Though you’d probably also want to include the mean of points possible too for reference.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
2nd January 2011, 14:10
Yep, all points have been calculated using the modern points system – that includes ignoring all the ’11 best scores count’ stuff from earlier seasons.
sw6569 (@sw6569)
2nd January 2011, 13:39
There are two quotations in the original text that have made me chose Alonso very easily.
“Won the 1979 title for Ferrari after Gilles Villeneuve was instructed not to pass him at Monza”
and
“Late in the season the team ordered Villeneuve to let Scheckter claim the title.”
Now we all know that Alonso is the current number 1 at Ferrari, but I think its also widely thought that Alonso is also better than Massa (and indeed all of his prior teammates). Scheckter hasn’t managed to shake off any ‘Gilles would have won the title if…’ criticisms, but no one at all thinks that Fisichella would have won the title in 05 and 06. Alonso dominated his team mate and the sport in his title winning years and is still a major player. I dislike him intensely, but Alonso gets it in this round convincingly.
GeeMac (@geemac)
2nd January 2011, 13:45
Jody Scheckter is an incredibly underrated WDC. As Keith said, he was a match for Gilles Vileneuve in the same car, and yet the driver we all idolise and talk about is GV…that’s being very unfair to Jody. He overcame a reputation as a crasher early on in his career to become a WDC against greats that included Villenueve, Jones and Andretti. That has to count for something.
I wouldn’t say he is better than Alonso, but I voted for Jody because he was more than a match for some of F1’s all time legends.
rob
2nd January 2011, 16:16
A given word was more important to Gilles than winning a WDC. That is why Jody won it in Monza ’79.
Journeyer
3rd January 2011, 8:27
Agreed.
Case in point: Didier Pironi, Imola 1982.
Marco
2nd January 2011, 14:00
What is the key in choosing the drivers couples, if I may ask? Why directly Scheckter with Alonso?
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
2nd January 2011, 14:13
I’ve tried to structure it so that we don’t get some of the most successful drivers paired up in the first round – e.g. Senna vs Prost or Fangio vs Clark.
RobertG
3rd January 2011, 19:29
how did u structurised?
Bartholomew
2nd January 2011, 14:07
Comparing Alonso with Scheckter is like comparing a mule with an ostrich
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
2nd January 2011, 14:13
Why?
BasCB (@bascb)
2nd January 2011, 14:54
The ostrich would be faster right? I would rather say it is like comparing two running horses who are both successfull in different countries (as there are no direct comparisons besides statistics and background information)
Marco
2nd January 2011, 14:08
Btw, with a little luck Jody had the title (1979) as he wasn t the best driver of that season… :)
1979 calculations:
01. Gilles Villeneuve – 79 points
02. Alan Jones – 59 points
03. Jody Scheckter – 49 points
I used lap by lap chart, which can be found at f1stats website and awarded drivers performances with
9-6-4-3-2-1 points…
Jody s best year in terms of performances was in Wolf team /1977/, where he finished again 3rd, but with 60 points, only 13 behind winner Andretti and 11 after 2nd Hunt… :)
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
2nd January 2011, 14:14
I don’t understand how you’ve arrived at those figures.
RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
2nd January 2011, 14:22
Marco, I watched the 1979 Season Review this morning to prepare myself for this debate and it clearly stated the Scheckter was a) a “very worthy” world champion and b) would have won the championship if points for all races were counted, not just 4 results from the first half and 4 from the second.
Marco
2nd January 2011, 14:40
Tours en téte 1979 :
/laps in lead from f1stats/
1. G.VILLENEUVE 308
2. A.JONES 216
3. J.SCHECKTER 170
4. P.DEPAILLER 110
5. J.LAFFITE 95
6. J.JABOUILLE 35
7. C.REGAZZONI 30
8. R.ARNOUX 11
Gilles was almost 2x more laps in the lead of the race then Jody…
And here is explaining of my calculations:
Scheckter
ARG – out of top 6
BRA – 5. /6,154 his average pos. on track/
JAR – 2. /1,526 his average pos. on track/
USA – 2. /2,350 his average pos. on track/
ESP – 4. /3,413 his average pos. on track/
BEL – 4. /3,100 his average pos. on track/
MON – 1. /1,000 his average pos. on track/
FRA – 6. /5,278 his average pos. on track/
GBR – 6. /4,328 his average pos. on track/
GER – 5. /4,000 his average pos. on track/
AUT – 5. /4,481 his average pos. on track/
NDL – 4. /4,147 his average pos. on track/
ITA – 1. /1,220 his average pos. on track/
CND – out of top 6
USA – 5. /4,313 average. pos. on track/
total points for performances – 49
best driver on the track – 2x
G Villeneuve
ARG – out of top 6
BRA – 6. /7,103 his average pos. on track/
JAR – 1. /1,526 his average pos. on track/
USA – 1. /1,000 his average pos. on track/
ESP – out of top 6
BEL – out of top 6
MON – 2. /2,037 his average pos. on track/
FRA – 1. /1,438 his average pos. on track/
GBR – out of top 6
GER – out of top 6
AUT – 3. /2,741 his average pos. on track/
NDL – 1. /1,388 his average pos. on track/
ITA – 3. /2,240 his average pos. on track/
CND – 1. /1,306 his average pos. on track/
USA – 1. /1,085 his average pos. on track/
total points for performances – 69
Best driver on the track – 6x
I find these calculations usefull and excellent as it just reflects what happened on the track… So it is obvious why many F1 fans rate Gilles highly then Jody… :) Judging only his track performances, he was on the way for his 1st title with only 34 GP completed… He just needed more luck :)
RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
2nd January 2011, 14:49
I must concede Marco that I also believe Villeneuve was the superior driver but that is not this argument, it is Alonso vs Scheckter. Villeneuve like Peterson and many other greats of this sport will be remembered for flashes of greatness in a career cut too short, unfortunately we will never know.
Interesting way of looking at championships, I’ll give you that. Perhaps similar methods could be used to view season like 1982 and 1989.
bosyber (@bosyber)
2nd January 2011, 15:18
Of course, in the end for a champion, it matters how you finish a race, not just how much you led it as a driver. Just a bit of a different skill set to drive fast and win, or drive calculatingly fast enough to just win. But a very interesting way of comparing the drivers, I agree.
Marco
2nd January 2011, 15:24
I know results is the one and only thing that counts, but I was looking for a way how to extract “the luck” out of there to see who had the abilities to be champion and who was only a benefitor of some technical issues… You can take Chris Amon as an example… Some people say, he should have won a gp… It is clearly true… In year 1968 he was leading in Canada and Spain while nobody ahead of him retired… Sadly, he was the one to do that on both occacions… And another example is Johnny Herbert, who won 3 times… But was he really able to win because of his own abilities, or was it just a pure luck? In GBR Hill and Schumacher collided and in Italy both Ferraris, both Williams and Schumacher were out… Amon was in the lead, because he had “that something”, Herbert was there only because someone else retired… And this is very different for me, when I judge drivers… And you are very right with 1982 and 1989… I have analysed all seasons from 1950 til now with results being interesting and quite beliavable… So, some things are clearer now for me as I read great things about Sir Moss, Gilles Villeneuve or Ronnie Peterson, but they all ended with empty hands… My analysis, which I made for pure fun showed me why they attracted so many fans and why are they considered among the greatest drivers even without winning titles…
Marco
2nd January 2011, 16:25
In Alonso vs. Scheckter comparison I would go clearly for Fernando… His 2 titles are fully deserved, especially in 2006 was an excellent one…
Andrew White
2nd January 2011, 15:58
I just cannot agree with that method. It takes away from a driver who comes up through the field to win. Going by that, a performance like Raikkonen in Suzuka 2005 would rank lower than a driver who leads for ages but then crashes out due to his own mistake. The result at the end is all that matters, not who was leading on lap 11 or whatever.
Marco
2nd January 2011, 16:19
And the same can be use for results… Vettel did an excellent job this year in Korea leading all the way and? He retired, because of technical problem and the result was one big zero… Big profiteur was Alonso… The same goes for Hamilton s
14th in Spain or Schumachers 12th in Monaco… What those result say about drivers performance? NOTHING… Another example is Massa and his probably best race in whole career in Hungary… The result was 0 points and 17th place… If I didn t watch that race and was new in F1 problematic I would say what a horrible performance! And it was the direct opposite… :) Every system has his pluses and minuses, but I see less minuses here as the season has often more then 17 races not one (the Raikkonen case)
Marco
2nd January 2011, 17:00
And another thing… What can you read from this?
Season 2001, best places of Minardi drivers:
Marques – 2x 9th place
Alonso – 1x 10th place
Was Marques really better?
Fernando just didn t have the needed luck in key races… My own season analysis showed that he was the faster driver with consistent performances not Marques as results say… And indeed, he was the one who got a drive in Renault, while Tarso was released from the contract and never returned back to F1…
Another example is Buemi and Alguersuari this year… Why was Jaime praised from Franz Tost at the end of the season? For his 19th place in Drivers championship and for scoring less points then Buemi? :) Again the results didn t show the true reality… Its very simple… :) If you want to see the true potential of driver properly, sometimes points aren t the best indicator…
US_Peter (@us_peter)
2nd January 2011, 18:43
That’s true. Points aren’t always the best indicator, and Alguersuari definitely shows more of a spark of potential than Buemi does. That’s why Keith has provided the statistics he has, but lets everyone vote their free mind. If it were just down to points and stats we all know Schumacher would have it, and there’d be no point to this whole thing.
MrKing (@)
2nd January 2011, 14:31
Alonso is currently the “most complete driver on the grid”, he is consistent, statistically he is better than Scheckter, and most importantly, Alonso is still in the middle of a very successful career. I reckon he could end his career as a 4/5xWDC at least.
Journeyer (@journeyer)
2nd January 2011, 14:36
I know Alonso will win this, but I like Jody a lot. Did well as he suddenly became lead driver at Tyrrell (when Cevert died), then dragged Wolf up to the front where it had no business running.
Jody also beat Gilles to the title in 79 – and given Gilles’ talent, that says something for me. :)
RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
2nd January 2011, 14:43
I would like to think that this debate and other debates with Alonso or British drivers will not be warped by hatred. Alonso is, arguably, the class of the field at the moment and his stunning comeback this season showed a variety of skills and silenced many critics. Obviously, I am an Alonso fan and must say that the 2010 World Championship was lost due to Alonso’s errors in the first half of the season. That said I still believe that Alonso is the better driver of the two simply on the basis of consistency and race victories. Scheckter was a talented driver and worthy champion but, like Hunt before him and Raikkonen after, seemed to see the championship as mission accomplished and saw no need to take further risk. The true greats of motor racing are never satisfied and always push the boundary and testament to this argument is that Alonso, given better luck, could possibly be a 4 time champion going into 2011.
Burnout (@burnout)
2nd January 2011, 15:29
Or perhaps that’s what makes Surtees, Hunt and Raikkonen great. That they were detached enough from F1 to see there were other things to accomplish. I think it takes a huge amount of will power and confidence to walk away from something you’re good at to do something different.
For the record, I voted Alonso. Imola 2005 seals the deal for me :D
RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
2nd January 2011, 19:20
To an extent I agree with you Burnout, but I feel that if all drivers mentioned had continued then they could have shown further evidence of their skill. All are worthy champions but we must have some perspective here. If Senna or Schumacher had retired the day after being Champion not only would our sport be a poorer place but critics would imply that the reason they were Champion was down to the car. We all know that this is entirely hypothetical but a great in my opinion is someone who had the ability to win against any opponent on any day regardless of track, weather or even a mechanical issue. If you list the greats of the sport there are always a few instances that blew the public away ie Donington 1993, Hungary 1998, Nurburgring 1958, Monza 1967 etc.
US_Peter (@us_peter)
2nd January 2011, 18:47
As well as one very strategic error in Abu Dhabi.
Hitman Contract
2nd January 2011, 19:04
Agreed but it was mostly Ferrari’s error not Alonso’s
RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
2nd January 2011, 19:30
I accept this point obviously, but every team makes mistakes. I feel that had every race went perfectly for Alonso in the first half of the season ie. no jump start, no collision in Australia, better qualifying in Malasia, not crashing in Monaco then Alonso would have been champion. However, every Vettel fan would say had his car survived in many races and had such silly errors ie Turkey not happened then he would have dominated. Likewise every Webber and Hamilton fan will point out several instances when they were unduly outdone.
Overall, Vettel is a worthy champion and must be seen as one despite the fastest car. In years to come we will cherish 2010. I also am almost perversely happy by defeat as critics would never allow Hockenheim to be forgotten and this result ensures Alonso’s legacy is remembered as a man who can led a team and will never give up. That alone silenced critics who may have believed Alonso could only fight for the title by having a great start to the season and preserving that lead for example.
It would be interesting to hear other contributor’s view on this controversial comment!
alex
2nd January 2011, 15:47
Alonso is really good. But being beaten by a rookie (in the same car, which is for me the only honest way to compare drivers) is something to consider. I am a Ferrari fan and would prefer to have Raikkonen, Vettel, Hamilton and, sure, the old Schumi in a red car. Just to mention this generation.
I just like the fastest drivers. And I am sure consistency is something that a good driver can learn.
About the contest, a good approach would have been to split the drivers in groups, like the World Cup. Eight groups of 4. Each group would have 2 for the next phase. It would be more fair, maybe. :)
Congrats for the site and for the contest!
Alexandre.
1992 Peugeot Talbot Sport (@peugeot-905-92-93-le-mans-winner)
2nd January 2011, 16:05
Why is Jarno Trulli not a notable teammate?
In 2004 he won Monaco and out qualified Alonso some events…
Mouse_Nightshirt (@mouse_nightshirt)
2nd January 2011, 16:21
Which would make Eddie Irvine a much more notable teammate to Michael Schumacher. And as much as I adore Irvine, I wouldn’t classify him as a “notable” teammate.
slr
2nd January 2011, 18:24
Irvine almost won the 1999 World Championship, Trulli has never had a good crack at winning the title.
OmarR-Pepper (@)
6th January 2011, 17:04
He almost won because of a broken leg of some famous guy
jonnyw360f1 (@jonnyw360f1)
2nd January 2011, 16:26
I’m not a fan of his personality, but there’s no denying Alonso is one of the most naturally gifted and fastest drivers on the grid today.
BillHicks
2nd January 2011, 19:55
Neither can you deny he is a cheat! The man is a disgrace to F1… F1 is a sport, is it not? Alonso is no sportsman… he is a coward in a red suit who abuses his position to gain an unfair advantage. Even when he cheats, he still can’t win. Gosh!
RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
2nd January 2011, 20:14
I tend not to respond to misguided comments like this however, a couple of ridiculous comments, admittedly in other posts, warrant a response. Alonso has never been successfully prosecuted against for any sporting infringement and has had his name cleared when he has been in court. If a casual supporter of the sport read your comment then their view would be unfairly distorted. Nothing you have said here has basis and you are needlessly deriding a champion through bias. Britain seems to enjoy slating great champions because they a cut above and then are too narrow minded when thinking of their own favourite. It will come as no surprise to you that I am an Alonso fan however, if Hamilton or any other driver was subject to such unfounded slander then I would have to back them up. I have no problem with opinion, but your comment suggests football-esque hatred that should have no place among intelligent comments on our favourite sport.
BillHicks
2nd January 2011, 20:39
“OK, so, Fernando is faster than you.” Oh yeah! Overtake then! Oh, wait, you can’t cos you’re rubbish. Unfounded slander my rear end!
A $100,000 fine says he (and Ferrari) are cheats. Your response suggests you need open your eyes. And he still couldn’t win, like I said.
He’s not the only one by any means, but he’s the subject of this discussion is he not?
RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
2nd January 2011, 21:37
My point on being narrow minded still stands.
Name one driver who would not have accepted his team-mate slowing down in front of him.
Alonso was faster than Massa in the previous laps and, crucially, was Ferrari’s favoured driver for the championship due to his experience. This was entirely vindicated later in the season.
“rubbish”, not even the greatest Alonso hater can deny his ability.
I do not mean to insult you or an other viewer of this comment however, I feel that bias is the root of your comment and that is unfair. I do not know if you are a Schumacher fan but, his career was derided a little in this country due to always being a rival to a British driver earlier in his career. The same has happened to Alonso, read any article from before May 2007 on Alonso and you will here nothing but superlatives about the man and his talent.
Trenthamfolk (@)
2nd January 2011, 22:01
@RBAlonso, Wherever Alonso goes there is trouble. he is a champion for himself alone. I would probably like him if he weren’t such a coward. This is my opinion. We have all heard his moaning prior to the move by Massa. Ferrari had Massa right where they wanted him after their uncharacteristic generosity following his crash last year. He owes them.
Alonso, for all failures as a Man, and for his pitiful justifications for his conduct throughout his career, is a great ‘driver’. I agree. But its not the clothes that make the man. It’s not the driving alone that is the mark of a true champion. Champion or not, Alonso will always be a disgrace, and not worthy of my vote. There used to be a day when honor and sportsmanship counted for something.
JustAnF1Fanatic (@justanf1fanatic)
2nd January 2011, 22:55
I too dislike Alonso, mostly for his personality etc. plus i am a Hamilton fan, this you would think gives me the grounds to hate Alonso with the blind passion that you seem to do billhicks, yet i cannot ignore his talent. As much as i don’t like him i cannot ignore races like Singapore this year etc. he is amazingly talented and you must be incredibly naive to not see it!
RBAlonso (@rbalonso)
2nd January 2011, 23:30
I accept and respect your opinion Trenthamfolk, mainly because your are not alone in your estimations. I also agree that a Champion must be OF good character. But, does that make Button a better champion than Alonso? I think not. Alonso is not the nicest person in the world, he is probably not the nicest person in his house (!), but he is ruthless and uncompromising with a personality. In the characterless world of f1 which we are in, perhaps Alonso will be remembered s a great champion in years to come, time can only tell.
I believe that “coward” is used in the wrong context here, all his overtakes have been brave and by definition you can not race being a coward. He has also never feared an argument.
The days of honour in sport left some time ago and no driver in formula 1 can claim to be whiter than white in this cut throat environment. Also, Alonso entered formula 1 during the Schumacher era of questionable politics.
I would also disagree with trouble following him everywhere. He was clean until spy-gate and was proven to have nothing to do with crash-gate. The team orders affair included Alonso indirectly. Admittedly, this is some co-incidence but co-incidence nonetheless.
melkurion (@melkurion)
2nd January 2011, 17:55
I want to vor Sheckter, simply because I don’t like Alonso….but as pinted out, this is not a popularity contest, so I vote Alonso.
I think Sheckter was most deffinetly a worthy champion. And his season with Wolf shows that he was on the pace, even if he did not have the best car ( although the Wolf was not to shabby offocurse)
Alonso however has demonstrated that he can remain on the top muh longer, and more importantly in my oppinion , did not let his motivation get down when he had two not so great seasons due to an infirior car.
Something Sheckter obviously did the year after he won the title…