In today’s round-up: HRT boss Colin Kolles has threatened to launch a protest against the "illegal" use of off-throttle blown diffusers next weekend in Monaco.
Links
Top F1 links from the past 24 hours:
Hispania threatening exhaust management system protest (BBC F1)
"HRT have threatened to launch a protest in Monaco against Formula 1’s latest ‘must-have’ technology."
Williams ‘just wants diffuser clarity’ (Autosport)
"Williams technical director Sam Michael insists that the team is seeking clarity on whether or not ‘hot-blowing’ exhaust blown diffusers are legal, rather than pushing for the system to be banned."
Without downforce, you can’t go forward. In Barcelona, Fernando’s talent was not enough (Ferrari)
Stefano Domenicali: “There is no denying that being lapped hurts. It’s even more painful after seeing a driver of Fernando’s calibre putting on such a breathtaking display at the start and then fighting like a lion to keep drivers with clearly faster cars behind him for almost twenty laps. We need to provide him and Felipe with a car with which they can fight all the way to the end of a race and not just in the first part.”
Spanish Grand Prix from the pit lane with Ted Kravitz (BBC F1)
"BBC F1 reporter Ted Kravitz brings you the inside line from the paddock after Red Bull’s Sebastian Vettel wins the 2011 Spanish Grand Prix."
"Bad race today, poor call on the first stop, was left out for too long losing lot of time, had to push to limit the damage, went off…"
Television Awards Nominees and Winners in 2011 (BAFTA)
The BBC has won a BAFTA for its coverage of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.
Brawn against December season finale (Autosport)
"The possible extension of the Formula 1 calendar into December to try and help accommodate the return of the Bahrain Grand Prix has been labelled as a step too far by Mercedes GP boss Ross Brawn."
Campaign supporting Bahrain GP continues at Loyalty Festival (Facebook)
"The campaign supporting the return of the Gulf Air Bahrain Grand Prix to the 2011 Formula One World Championship continues this week at the loyalty festival, set to Monday at Bahrain International Exhibition and Convention Centre."
Fernando Alonso returns to live in Spain (The Mirror)
"Fernando Alonso has returned to live in his native Spain even though it will cost him a staggering 50million in tax."
Adrian Newey: The hottest property in F1 but what is his secret? (The Independant)
"I think that people just point at a part. Last year we supposedly had fancy front dampers which changed the ride height between qualifying and race, or we had levers to do that, flexy wings. We had this, we had that. At the end of the day, a racing car is not about individual gadgets and features, it’s about how the whole package works and is integrated. How the aerodynamics of the front end affect the middle and rear of the car, how the suspension characteristics work with the aerodynamics."
Follow F1 news as it breaks using the F1 Fanatic live Twitter app.
Comment of the day
Are you going to the British Grand Prix? Mike has a few question – can anyone help?
Couple of questions for you Silverstone experts. For Whittlebury, what time is it best to arrive on Thursday? Is there any action on Thursday at all?
For leaving the circuit, for how long is it bedlam – is it worth/possible staying Sunday night to skip the rush?
What’s a reasonable time to get in on Sunday to get reasonable viewing positions? I see the gates open at 4am, but let’s say we didn’t want to get up at 4 and perhaps decided to enter the circuit at 6, would there be space available?
Any advice would be appreciated :-)
Mike
Read more: 2011 British Grand Prix discussion
From the forum
2011 Spanish Grand Prix Awards
Happy birthday!
Happy birthday to Emmet!
On this day in F1
Jackie Stewart scored a perfect result in the Monaco Grand Prix 40 years ago today.
He started from pole position, set fastest lap and led all of the 80 laps on his way to victory.
Ronnie Peterson finished second, 25 seconds adrift.
jsw11984 (@jarred-walmsley)
23rd May 2011, 0:09
Keith, the HRT link just links back to the Roundup not to the BBC page,
jarred harold
23rd May 2011, 6:31
Keith, the HRT link just links back to the Roundup not to the BBC page for me too. plz fix it.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
23rd May 2011, 7:50
Fixed it – thanks.
BasCB (@bascb)
23rd May 2011, 8:31
Yeah, looks like the link is not OK Cari, if you would have a look at it please.
Here is the right link to that article.
Last Pope Eye
23rd May 2011, 9:02
{comment hidden due to low rating}
Djxo2
23rd May 2011, 0:24
ahh this protesting of hot blown floors/diffusers…just cause they didn’t think of it! terriable. when you can’t beat some one on the track they resort to the court room. shut up and race! (or at least get with in 107%)
DVC
23rd May 2011, 3:00
Maybe they did think of it, and then thought, “no we can’t do that, it’s against the rules.” Did you think of that?
unnoooc
23rd May 2011, 3:26
More likely….
“That seems really useful, how much? Can I get it with the 10 grand I have left over from NK’s seat payment…. oh, I can’t.. ok…. IT’S HORRRRRRRRIBLE!!”
DVC
23rd May 2011, 7:08
I agree that’s probably more likely. It’s not really the point though. The only question is: does it contravene the regulations as written?
Lee
23rd May 2011, 9:47
From what I can see they will be stretching the interpretation of the rules to ban the blown exhausts.
Skett
23rd May 2011, 17:52
I can see why it does tbh. EBDs themselves are a bit of a grey area, but I can see how having the engine set to blow gases over the diffuser when off the throttle would be against the rules.
When driving, the exhaust has to be there. When off the throttle it doesn’t, therefore it is for the ENTIRE purpose of improving the aerodynamics. That makes it a movable aerodynamic device.
Its all a bit of a grey area tbh but I can see why they’d think that its worse than the standard ebd
Icthyes (@icthyes)
23rd May 2011, 9:51
Sorry, I forgot where I was and used the p-word. Apologies and my original post (modified):
HRT had actually planned to introduce their own EBD this weekend. Then the FIA clarification came though. You can understand why he’s mad, spending all that money when he barely has any to begin with.
Plus: I wish they had done it in Spain instead of just dragging this out. Just seems so unedifying.
kaddison (@kaddison)
23rd May 2011, 11:00
Treading on thin ice…all it would take is for a Redbull to put on soft tyres and put in a stunning lap in Q1 which would likely put the HRT’s and Virgin’s out of the 107% time…and then refuse to let them race.
Would be funny to see, though it would be a waste of soft tyres.
unnoooc
23rd May 2011, 12:05
It is not against the rules.. becasue
1) They are not allowed movable aero devices. The engine constantly puts out exhaust gases even before this and as such doesn’t count.
a There is no rule about how engine exhaust gases are to be dealt with
b There are no rules about using the exhaust gases in particular way
2) If it was illigal they would have banned it last year.
a If they say it’s due to the slight change from last year then it will need a big explanation
b If they say its from a different rule then they need to take the WCC away from RBR and the WDC away from Vettel. Which would cause massive confusion and damage F1. THey would have to give it to Lotus and from memory Kovalinan as all teams who scored points used it at some point
steco (@steco)
23rd May 2011, 0:47
HRT is so rubbish so they try to get attention in other way to promote themselves and get some more sponsors perhaps. but they should focus on racing instead making a fuzz, imho now others teams should not allow they to go racing if they fail 107% rule.
BasCB (@bascb)
23rd May 2011, 9:05
That is not about being rubbish. It does seem Cosworth is having more trouble doing the hot blowing thing, but Willis actually had a concept prepared they might have made ready to race or test here in spain.
Only they stopped it after the FIA clarification and now feel being badly done for as it was allowed again.
They are doing a fine job of working on improvements. And protesting things is in the finest traditions of F1. Shows they are right where they belong on the grid.
peto4000 (@peto4000)
23rd May 2011, 9:32
Is there a reason the 107% rule isn’t off Q3. 107% rule in the past was off pole time. Feel HRT wouldn’t have a chance is it was.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
23rd May 2011, 9:35
Presumably because the track conditions generally improve throughout the session and it would be unfair for those eliminated in Q1 who can’t set times in Q3 when the track is at its best.
That said, track ‘evolution’ seems to be a lot lower with the Pirelli tyres than it was with the Bridgestones.
Fixy (@)
23rd May 2011, 15:02
They’ve done it and now it gets banned. FIA should give important news on changes early.
tommygnr
23rd May 2011, 1:02
Oh well, if Kolles wants to protest I suspect the likes of RB Ferrari and McLaren will strap on soft tyres for Q1 and leave HRT well outside 107%. No more charity from the big boys. Are HRT even allowed to protest if they don’t qualify for the race?
Banburyhammer (@banburyhammer)
23rd May 2011, 1:34
They would be insanely stupid to jeapordise race pace out of spite for HRT. Those teams have more important stuff to get on with.
tommygnr
23rd May 2011, 2:48
What’s the point of race pace if you’re not allowed to race. If the top teams got in to bed on this they wouldn’t be at a disadvantage relative to each other either.
Fixy (@)
23rd May 2011, 15:04
If the top teams got disqualified from qualifying then HRT would set the time from which the 107% would be calculated, therefore qualifying and winning.
JuanFanger
23rd May 2011, 4:26
Perhaps HRT would protest only if they miss out on the 107% qualifying…
BasCB (@bascb)
23rd May 2011, 9:14
Thing is, if they fail to qualify, they cannot file a complaint for the race, as they were no part to it!
Robyn
23rd May 2011, 1:07
Colin Kolles isn’t going to stop until every car on the grid is as slow as the HRT! Understand?!
Seriously, though, I feel just as inclined to blame Charlie Whiting as I do to blame Kolles; yesterday Whiting was practically encouraging someone to do just this.
BasCB (@bascb)
23rd May 2011, 9:16
I think they already had received remarks from HRT in this line.
And Williams also talked about having asked for clarification as Cossy was having a hard time to make all the engine mapping.
MuzzleFlash
23rd May 2011, 1:29
It’s probably not as big as case of sour grapes as some are making out, though it didn’t come across that way in the Kravis-Kolles interview. HRT probably don’t have the money to pursue the development of an EBD and would rather have the grey area of the rules in which it exists filled in.
Robyn
23rd May 2011, 1:45
According to Kolles, they had been totally planning to have one as part of their upgrades for this weekend! But then Whiting was all, “No, that’s illegal,” so they had to shelve it. Mm hm.
Malibu_GP
23rd May 2011, 1:45
Ahhh, Sir Jackie is the Absolute Man! In the early 70’s He was all over television here in the states when I first fell in love with GP racing. I can even go so far as to say, it was partially due to Him and our great American Champion The Senior Andretti that I became as obsessed as I am. It’s really kind of pathetic. Imagine,if You will a forty one year old, very busy executive with such compulsion that He locks Himself behind His office doors several times daily so as to peruse any source of related info. A man so enamored that He keeps the smart phone by the bed not For biz emergencies, but rather to check this site because of its commitment to write and publish extremely insightful, concise articles more quickly than the others. I don’t comment much because frankly there is always someone here with the energy to keep the crazies honest.My mood often seems a bit blue on the weekends between races…, and the off season?! Forget about it. Anyway, I digress (there’s that famous blathering again) Unlike some of You I will never threaten to stop watching. I didn’t when Schu was dominant, and I won’t ever. I LOVE THIS SPORT!
Cacarella
23rd May 2011, 2:19
You should comment more often!
chiv
23rd May 2011, 3:10
comment of the day!
David-A (@david-a)
23rd May 2011, 3:22
A really positive outlook on this sport we all love. A real Fanatic :)
Fixy (@)
23rd May 2011, 15:15
Great behaviour, a real fan. I do the same, F1 is for ever, not just when our favourite driver wins!
David-A (@david-a)
23rd May 2011, 1:46
“Since we’re not winning, everyone else is cheating” – the next message that should appear in the place of sponsors on the HRT.
US_Peter (@us_peter)
23rd May 2011, 6:55
If they do introduce a “hot exhaust” it could have a sticker in it that reads “this is a hot spot.”
Adam Tate (@adam-tate)
23rd May 2011, 8:31
If they do introduce a “hot exhaust” it could have a sticker in it that reads “this is a hot spot.”
Woffin
23rd May 2011, 2:13
In all fairness to HRT, if you are tight on cash and looking to develop your car then you will always go for developing the concept that brings the most performance so as to make the most of the R&D budget. In this case, the exhausts are the big area of focus in 2011 so HRT will likely have been working away on getting their own version working, just like Virgin. For them to then turn up at a race and find out the new style exhausts are banned (and then not banned, but then banned for a few races time, and then being utterly confused by the whole situation) this means a whole lot of wasted effort and money.
For Ferrari or Red Bull this kind of write-off isn’t too big a deal, but when you’re a small team like HRT and your next (and probably only) major update is declared illegal with no prior warning then I think you have every right to complain.
AmirAnuar (@amiranuar)
23rd May 2011, 7:32
the concept is not banned it just the engine map for when the throttle is off is banned. they could still use the exhaust diffuser but without the banned engine map. i dont know why they are making a buzz about it just use it…
Mitch
23rd May 2011, 2:50
I really wish RBR would just make Webber run softs in Q1 so Hispania would never qualify for a single race. They don’t care about his results anyway they may aswell just remove this useless team from the sport.
US_Peter (@us_peter)
23rd May 2011, 7:01
Agreed. It’s a totally reasonable attitude for him to be utterly frustrated by the lack of clarification from the FIA. This is further evidence in my opinion that it should be left alone for this season and banned next year. Obviously the teams that re running it need some amount of time to find an alternative, but if it is to be banned later, then what do you tell teams like HRT and Virgin on tiny budgets? They can’t spend what little money they have on implementing it only for a couple races. I think the most fair thing they could do is let it stand for the season, and let HRT and Virgin introduce their solutions sooner than later. Postponement just leads to confusion and frustration.
wasiF1 (@wasif1)
23rd May 2011, 2:56
I don’t think there will be too much trouble for the season ending in December as the season did started two weeks later in the tail end of March from the date it should have been started.
llama
23rd May 2011, 3:41
This EBD malarky is a little annoying. If the ‘sprit’ of the regulations prohibit the off throttle EBD, then why wasn’t that stipulated clearly at the beginning of the season? It’s not like it wasn’t common knowledge that that’s what everyone was doing.
I can’t help but think that this is a chip which is being played for some other political gain. I can’t see the top teams taking this lying down, but then they may have to concede some other issue in return… and if HRT had an EBD in the wings and are so upset that they can’t implement it, why aren’t they siding with the other teams instead of playing the obvious patsy.
jarred harold
23rd May 2011, 6:34
It might act as an example for others such persons that ultimately ” BAD HAS A BAD END” . Even if he is ultimately banned EBD much punishment , his entire coming generation will remember this night and this News will be an important piece of HISTORY
janis1207
23rd May 2011, 9:19
Exactly!
There was a rumor that Bernie has been offering cash to HRT “to help them get through some hard times”.
Now HRT are getting very vocal about EBD contrary to most other teams (except Williams). Can’t be good for the unity of FOTA.
Coincidence?
gDog
23rd May 2011, 4:36
Can someone explain why blowing the diffuser off-throttle is being considered illegal (by some parties), but blowing the diffuser on-throttle is ok?
I thought the rule being used to question it’s legality is the “moveable aero device” rule, which to me is a debateable argument, or have I got that wrong?
If that is the case, what makes hot-blown (off-throttle) more illegal than cold-blown (on-throttle)?
Mike
23rd May 2011, 5:06
As I understand it it’s just a route the FIA don’t want the sport to go down. I don’t know their reasons.
Geordie Porker
23rd May 2011, 6:17
There is a huge grey area here…what Charlie Whiting seems to be saying is that this MAY constitute a ‘driver operated’ aero device, which are illegal. But the counter argument goes that if the driver didn’t back off the throttle he’d crash, so he’s not doing anything ‘extra’ to activate the off-throttle EBD.
The long and the short of this debate is that the FIA don’t like the concept of burning fuel to generate downforce, so they’re looking to ban it (fair enough)…BUT the teams then said ‘no, to ban it you’d need a LOT more data than you currently get, it’s worth a huge amount of time and we’d like to sit together as FOTA and decide how best to proceed’ (again, seems fair enough)…BUT then Charlie Whiting made it clear that if someone did protest, the FIA would have to look into it (this, imho, is the only problem; CW has effectively invited the protest).
gDog
23rd May 2011, 6:28
Thanks Geordie, thats the most sense of it I’ve heard.
However, my point is, that if there’s any argument thats says the off-throttle is illegal, then surely you can apply the exact same argument against the on-throttle. If anything the case against the on-throttle is stronger because the driver is actively moving his foot to adjust the throttle.
All utter nonsense obviously.
Kolles has every right to be upset about the way this is being handled. It’s potentially costing his team a significant portion of they very limited development budget for the season. I dont think he’s going about it the right way, but at least he’s forcing a decision one way or the other.
Just a thought, maybe its a sponsor attracting gambit on Kolles part, the little fella sticking up for himself against the big guns.
US_Peter (@us_peter)
23rd May 2011, 7:07
I’m just outraged no one is trying to ban the front wheels, which are much more obviously a “moveable aerodynamic device,” and not in the “spirit” of the rules. DRS as well! ;-)
DVC
23rd May 2011, 7:15
Well, they have already outlawed the driver as a moveable aerodynamic device.
Skett
23rd May 2011, 17:58
Whilst I agree with you, I can understand the reasoning behind it. Exhaust gases are gonna happen either way when running. For it to happen when not on the throttle is purely aerodynamic.
jarred harold
23rd May 2011, 6:55
well as much against I am for blown diffusers, I really dont understand to keep an under tray of the diffuser in a high temperature zone. It might be related to front downforce somehow, might be the mastermind of adrian newey well but he has not proved yet and hence it is illegal to treat ebd the same way as a ride hight control system and is against the fia rules.I mean put mclaren in red bull’s position, lets say we have a doubt of 50% that mclaren might be the one protesting it.What if mclaren are not protesting the ebd ban at all??Then how will the FIA compensate for the trouble and loss of money for mclaren ?monetarily?Even if they do that i don’t think its justified. Its no reason to put ban something becoz red bull/mclaren have better downforce.FIA should have either detection centers which detects extra downforce and cancels it like strictness or should instruct mclaren or red bull to transfer some of its personnel and techical data to teams like hrt and virgin with no communication channel open.(coz FIA’s main intention is to stop HRT?Virgin from protesting).I am not advocating this only coz this protest is high profile, this should be practiced for each and every case to ensure smaller teams rights are not violated. I personally would want mclaren and red bull to transfer some of their tech to hrt and virgin.
Owen
23rd May 2011, 7:22
HRT is the only team not part of FOTA which is why they were able to make the complaint. Charlie Whiting surely had this in mind when making his not-so-subtle comment about teams raising the issue.
Rob
23rd May 2011, 7:26
50mil tax? Why on earth so much?
Rob
23rd May 2011, 7:27
Did he take the new deal just to move back? :P
Klaas
23rd May 2011, 7:40
The Spanish government begged him to move back so with his taxes he can pull Spain out of crisis :)
HounslowBusGarage
23rd May 2011, 8:42
Probably because the Spanish tax authorities would have the ability to go back to the year when he last paid tax in Spain. I think in the UK, the Excise can go back seven years. I can’t remember when ALO moved to Monaco or wherever, but it could be five or seven years ago. In which case, he’s earned an awful lot in driver fees, sponsorships and endorsements since then and possibly paid no tax.
BasCB (@bascb)
23rd May 2011, 9:20
In the article it statest that they could be taking as much as 50 million from his 150million to be received for the next years at Ferrari.
Sounds like a about 33% real taxation of his income (higher rate but applied after taking in account expenses etc.), that sounds pretty normal for Europe, doesn’t it?
HounslowBusGarage
23rd May 2011, 13:00
Yep. Sounds pretty fair too.
Maciek
23rd May 2011, 7:54
I don’t seem to comment on much anything else these days, but… the Bahrain Loyalty Festival??? From the facebook page:
It just makes me feel warm all over when genuine citizen initiatives pledge love and loyalty to leaders. Why,it just gets my feet a-goosesteppin’.
BasCB (@bascb)
23rd May 2011, 9:22
I had a look at it as well and felt like leaving a remark “not much love lost here” or something.
But I could only find the “like” button and that is not what I want to do. And i did never figure out how making a note somewhere works.
jarred harold
23rd May 2011, 8:11
I have a question that no one seems to have pondered over here or any other blog.
When was the last time that a leader of the race got lapped lol?? !! I can’t remember any tbh.
flapper
23rd May 2011, 8:39
Wow! I can’t remember any myself. Must have been in the turbo era or in the 70’s. Cannot remember any. Wow that must be a record of sorts for Fernando lolz.
Tim
23rd May 2011, 8:57
From memory, the most recent I can think of was Alain Prost at the 1993 European GP. Prost lead most of the first lap and finished third but was lapped by Ayrton Senna before the end of the race.
flapper
23rd May 2011, 9:03
Oh Yes! How did I forget that? But to lead 20 laps and get lapped with 3 laps to go, that too without any apparent mechanical issues is something else.
John H
23rd May 2011, 9:34
I think you should change to the question to:
When was the last time that the leader of a dry race got lapped?
For that I have no answer.
Cacarella
23rd May 2011, 14:27
Markus Winkelhock, 2007
Mads (@mads)
23rd May 2011, 8:29
Can’t they just shut up about this EBD and leave it on then revise the rules for 2012. It is unfair for the teams who have already developed a system when it was allowed that they suddenly want to limit its use or maybe even remove it.
If FIA don’t like it they should have thought about it last year. It is too late now. Or at least it should be too late to make any changes.
VXR
23rd May 2011, 8:47
All that is necessary to do is remove the software that creates down force when the driver ‘moves’ his foot off the throttle pedal. The diffuser will work in the normal way when the driver uses his right foot to create torque from the engine.
The use of the engine to create down force when the driver has his foot off the throttle pedal, clearly contravenes article 3.15 with regard to driver influenced or moving aero devices.
In fact, the whole concept of exhaust gases being used to create down force when the driver has his foot is ‘on’ the throttle, could also be said to be illegal.
Mads (@mads)
23rd May 2011, 9:16
That depends on interpretation. You could also say that the driver is not allowed to turn the wheel because his front tyres will alter the aerodynamics of the car.
FIA knew this would happen last year, they had the chance to ban it, they didn’t so the teams designed their car around the rules. I will say that as soon as it is not a safety issue they should not be allowed to ban a system if a car is allowed to race it in the first race. After that it should be too late for those games.
What will it give us anyway? Speculations whether it is to stop Vettel running away with it.
Confusion about what it will do and if they will ban it or not.
Costs, because some teams might have to change their rear diffuser if they find the rear unstable when they lift of.
The only people it will help is the people who has not been clever enough from the start of the season which seems a little unfair don’t it?
BasCB (@bascb)
23rd May 2011, 9:24
Its not about the driver doing his driving being said to be illegal moving device. It is about him doing something purely for its aerodynamics effect.
And in this case the driver does not have anything to do with it, as its the software doing this all by itself under the right engine mapping.
Lee
23rd May 2011, 9:58
However you could argue that the car is just idle at 8000rpm. So therefore the driver lifting off the throttle is just returning the car to its idle state which surely can not be illegal?
BasCB (@bascb)
23rd May 2011, 10:03
Lee, the driver does not control the engine directly, like we do on your road cars.
If you do not press the pedal, your engine keeps running but does not give you thrust.
In F1 the throttle is just a pedal for the driver to indicate how much power he wants as a request from the engine.
The software puts in fuel mix and manages the rpm based on its engine mapping and chosen regime. Its not the driver controlling the car but the software making it easier.
Lee
23rd May 2011, 10:23
This is exactly my point. The software is idling the engine at 8000rpm or so. I am not sure what you are trying to say?
Also modern road cars also do exactly the same thing, the ECU makes sure the right mix of fuel and ideal idling rpm are achieved.
BasCB (@bascb)
23rd May 2011, 10:31
Well, but what does going at idle 8000 rpm have to do with spraying fuel into the mix flowing out of the cylinders, using retarded ignition to torch the exhausts to achieve a large flow of hot gasses boosting the diffusor in idle?
That has nothing to do with the engine running, its more like doing an after burner in jets.
Lee
23rd May 2011, 10:38
Well, in the case of fuel injection then yes this is nothing to do with RPM. However I am not sure all the teams are injecting fuel into the exhausts. Most as far as I was aware are simply running the engine faster off throttle.
However either way I think it is stretching the interpretation to suggest that the driver is directly effecting the aerodynamics through movement.
BasCB (@bascb)
23rd May 2011, 11:24
No Lee, all teams save HRT and Virgin use retarded ignition to burn fuel in the exhaust pipes now (Lotus also joined them here).
Not completely sure how it works for Williams, as they themselves stated their car would be illegal under the clarification but I also understood that Cosworth does not have the engine mapping for this “hot exhaust boost” working.
Mads (@mads)
23rd May 2011, 12:46
@BasCB I understand, but the engine is still mapped to idle, otherwise the engine would cut out as soon as they lift off. That means that there will still be air going over the diffuser, just not as much. This engine mapping was known last year, and FIA should have seen it coming.
I think it is unfair and has no purpose other then to make a PR statement that FIA won’t accept wasting fuel. But fact is F1 is about going quicker and burning more fuel to do so is what F1 is about.
It is a great innovation, and just listen to the cars on the overrun vs a car with a regular exhaust from early 2010. I think that the cars with these new engine mappings sound even better then the V10 cars.
Lee
23rd May 2011, 14:01
@BasCB
So should the FIA not be looking to ban exhaust fuel injection rather than Engine Mappings?
BasCB (@bascb)
23rd May 2011, 16:48
I would rather think the injection of fuel and pushing out extra hot air when running without the driver on the throttle stems from the engine mapping used, no?
TdM
23rd May 2011, 16:41
I think one of the problems with banning it quickly is that the cars this year have been designed around it (or lots of them anyway) – Look at McLaren who have based a large amount of their car on the EBD. Even so much that I’m sure they were at least if not still are developing the weird octopus exhaust.
If you suddenly remove that from the equation you have several problems:
1) People who were designing around it less get an unfair advantage
2) We don’t know how the cars will respond to the reduction in downforce
This could in fact even fall into a safety issue. The teams haven’t done testing and running without the EBD because since last year they have been developing presuming it was going to be on the car.
If they just ban the afterburner effect it will hit the front teams hardest I would think. Due to the design of the car, the sudden loss of downforce once off the throttle, especially into slow corners could cause all sorts of balance issues and possible sudden snap oversteer – imagine if you are on/off the throttle through a long corner balancing the car or you change gear half way through a fast sweeper – the flow of exhaust changes due to revs dropping and off you go in a spin.
They could deal with this before because it was planned for but maybe not with a rapid ban. The drivers may need to run at higher revs stressing the engine in corners to keep the revs up inaccurately and nuke their engines, tyres will go off quicker due to lack of downforce and balance – there are so many possibilities to the consequences of this. Personally I think it would be unfair to ban it this year.
BasCB (@bascb)
23rd May 2011, 16:47
No one is planning on banning the EBD. Just the “afterburner effect” when off throttle.
Tim
23rd May 2011, 9:11
The FIA isn’t looking to ban the EBD completely, just the more recent development of off-throttle EBDs.
The original EBDs utilise exhaust gases produced when the driver is on the throttle to generate downforce. Obviously, the driver is not on the throttle over the course of the whole lap, so the downforce generated by a conventional EBD is rather inconsistent. But this problem can be reduced by using engine maps that continue to generate exhaust gases even when the driver comes off the throttle. Teams have started using off-throttle EBDs much more recently than they’ve been using EBDs generally.
Using an engine map to generate extra exhaust gas uses much more fuel. The FIA’s thinking appears to be that it’s ok to make use of waste gases that will always be generated, quite another to intentionally generate more waste gas.
BBT (@bbt)
23rd May 2011, 11:18
It is not a recent development, well it is if you call the middle of last season recent. It was in the middle of the Mclarens upgrade list for 2010, first used in Spa.
Adam Tate (@adam-tate)
23rd May 2011, 8:43
A few thoughts: wow Jackie Stewart was really in a class of his own.
Ferrari is terrible on the hard tires not just because they are lacking in downforce, but they are lacking in innovation, courage, design. Seeing Alonso go from leading to lapped was one thing, but seeing Felipe almost salvage a terrible race to get a few points, only for is gearbox to let go was even worse.
If Ferrari wants to get anywhere close to the front for the rest of the season they need to really step it up.
flapper
23rd May 2011, 8:56
Hamilton needs to learn a thing or two from Fernando about being patriotic. Crydon is such a great place and he scarpers it. Such a shame. Hope he matures and realizes that money & the pussycat ain’t everything in life.
I was appalled in the manner in which he debaged his father, if it wasn’t for he would have turned out to be a joe bloggs.
Tim
23rd May 2011, 9:00
I think you mean Stevenage – Croydon is on the opposite side of London.
BasCB (@bascb)
23rd May 2011, 9:28
First of all Hamilton is from Stevenage. Second, their situation is a lot different. Lewis might live in Switzerland officcially, but he travels between his teams base in Woking (certainly visiting friends and family in England as well) and the races with occasional stops at his girlfriend in the US or his home.
Alonso on the other hand was travelling between his team in Italy and the races, while his GF (or wife?) is in Spain (she works there) and his home is in Monaco.
This way he will at least have the home where his GF is and will go there at times between the races.
mvi
23rd May 2011, 16:33
Alonso’s (and his wife’s) official residence was in Switzerland near Lugano, not too far from Maranello.
Like Hamilton as you mention, they both travel around quite a bit for professional and personal/family reasons.
John H
23rd May 2011, 9:30
“I was appalled in the manner in which he debaged his father”
How can we possibly make a judgement on this unless we take what the tabloids say as verbatim.
Icthyes (@icthyes)
23rd May 2011, 9:55
I don’t care if a driver wants to be a tax exile considering our governments’ fiscal policies over the years.
mvi
23rd May 2011, 16:39
What do YOU mean by ‘he debaged his father’? The online definition of debag doesn’t seem to fit any situation here. ?
John H
23rd May 2011, 9:28
It’s exactly the same as the F-duct in my opinion.
Keep off throttle blowing for this year and ban next year. FIA just need to issue a statement clarifying the use of off throttle engine mappings for now, but also stop extravagant development concepts (the thing Charlie is afraid of) for 2012.
If HRT protest it will make them look ridiculous. They need the other teams to survive. Just look at Force India when they got helped out by several teams in 2009 and now they are an established mid-field outfit.
box this lap (@sebashuis)
23rd May 2011, 10:01
With his new contract I thought Alonso would move to Italy. But it seems Spain is great place to live because I would never ever pay that amount of taxes.
BasCB (@bascb)
23rd May 2011, 10:05
Certainly a lot of cheap property available now in Spain :-D
jake
23rd May 2011, 10:37
the last leader to get lapped would be europe 07, winkelhock for spyker
flyingj
25th May 2011, 5:07
Buemi in Canada last year?
BBT (@bbt)
23rd May 2011, 11:11
They could of banned the off throttle blown diffusers last year but did’t, at least RBR and Mclaren were using it from Spa (RBR before) and I believe Ferrari as well, although it wasn’t as developed as this season. Its had to be more extreme now due to the single diffuser.
I remember Davison commentating on it during free practise at Spa. It has been around for much longer than this season, a bit odd to suddenly take issue with it.
Icthyes (@icthyes)
23rd May 2011, 11:33
Angelou: No question that investment in F1 will rev Texas economy
Faust
23rd May 2011, 12:11
What’s to stop the driver dipping the clutch and holding the throttle open with his foot? With KERS you can still get some engine braking effect across the rear axle to balance the car.
NickTheGeek
23rd May 2011, 12:17
The rules state in spirit that nothing on the car, be it driver triggered or not should change the aerodynamic characteristics of the car outside of what it would during its normal operation.
So, having a blown diffuser that works while the engine is expelling gasses as needed to accelerate is one thing. Purposely engineering that engine to “unnaturally” blow gasses is another and IMHO is a very dark shade of grey.
NomadIndian
23rd May 2011, 14:42
Stefano on Alonso: “… fighting like a lion…”
lol…
man, are we going to have 5 more years of this!!
Adrian J
23rd May 2011, 16:45
So the FiA wants to stop the teams burning fuel in the exhaust pipes.
Nick Heidfeld’s car fire was possibly the result of a craked exhaust allowing that (fuel being burnt in the exhaust pipe) to set fire to parts of the car.
Surely the FiA can ban it on safety grounds if they really want to..?!?!
AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner)
23rd May 2011, 19:07
I really don’t get what Kolles wants to get out of protesting the off-throttle EBD. Surely a protest is futile if Charlie Whiting himself postponed the ban? He can hardly punish the teams with this type of EBD if he has agreed with them the postponement.
I’m also inclined to agree with Ross Brawn. It’s getting ridiculous.