Start, Hockenheim, 2012

German GP moved earlier for extra race in 2013

2013 F1 season

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Start, Hockenheim, 2012The FIA has moved the date of the German Grand Prix forward by a week to create space on the 2013 F1 calendar for a new European event.

The 2013 German Grand Prix will take place on July 7th, one week after the British Grand Prix and the same weekend as the Goodwood Festival of Speed.

A meeting of the World Motor Sport Council at Istanbul in Turkey confirmed a space has been left on the calendar for another race in Europe on July 21st, one week before the Hungarian Grand Prix.

This is expected to be a return to Istanbul Park for the Turkish Grand Prix. If the extra race goes ahead it will mean the 2013 calendar remains at 20 races as the Jersey Grand Prix is being postponed to 2014.

Paul Ricard and Magny-Cours have also been trying to return to the calendar as the host of the French Grand Prix. Red Bull have also mooted the possibility of holding a race in Austria at the Red Bull Ring (formerly the A1 Ring).

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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68 comments on “German GP moved earlier for extra race in 2013”

  1. So, which race is going?

    1. Neither. New Jersey is postponed.
      I hope they’ll choose Istanbul. That’s a fantastic circuit. Guaranteed excitement in the race.

      1. I’ve also heard that the USGP might move as the current date clashes with a big Texas Longhorns (college football) game being played in Austin – there’s talk of shifting the race date to prevent logistical mayhem from breaking out when two big events hit Austin on the same weekend.

    2. Valencia.

  2. Oh, nice surprise, I like that track. Although we would have two ‘Turn 8s’ with it… I like the original one in Istanbul more though. The signature corner of Austin is Turn 1 anyway, while Turn 15 and Turn 19 are more characteristic on that track anyway for differing reasons.

    1. I agree, I cant even remember where that turn is in Austin.

  3. A French GP needs to be on the calendar, I’m not a big fan of Magny-Cours so I hope they give Paul Ricard a go.

  4. I’d be happy with a A1-ring revival ! I liked that little austrian circuit !

    1. @gwenouille It could turn out to be quite ironic as the Red Bull Ring is not what you might think of as a ‘Red Bull circuit’ – it’s more of a power over downforce track. Although they’d like the third sector.

      It’s not a bad track, I’d like it a lot more if it weren’t such a pale shadow of the original.

      1. Yes, I guess you are right about it not being a “Red Bull track”.
        I like the scenery in fact: Styria is a wonderful, wonderful region and the circuit has such a nice background. It reminds me of Spa.

        I don’t recall the circuit’s original incarnation, only the reduced version. Wasn’t it H.Tilke there too ?
        I think it is too short though, I like longer circuits with less blue flags…

      2. @keithcollantine if they did race at the A1/Red Bull Ring – which layout would they use?

        1. @raymondu999 It hasn’t been changed significantly since last time and I don’t think there are any other usable options besides the previous one.

          1. I remember Red Bull proposed a major extension, but that hasn’t come to much. The track’s good enough on its own merits though, it’ll be nice to have something different though, as the Red Bull Ring has such a short lap.

          2. @lin1876 – I don’t think it was Red Bull who proposed those extensions.

            From what I understand, Formula 1 left the A1 Ring because the drivers were threatening to do lap times in under a minute. The series had outgrown the circuit. In a bid to get Formula 1 back to Austria, the then-owners decided to upgrade and extend the circuit, using parts of the original layout in the design.

            Construction was scheduled to go ahead, and they knocked down the pit buildings and the main grandstand … only for everything to come to a screeching halt. I can’t find any reliable source explaining why, but I have heard that someone – either a group of environmentalists or garden-variety NIMBYs – filed an injuction in an Austrian court, which was upheld, forcing construction to come to a halt. They couldn’t even rebuild what they had wiped out (if true, one suspects that the injunction was deliberately timed to achieve exactly this).

            There were several attempts to get the project back up and running. Red Bull were initially involved, while Alex Wurz, KTM and Volkswagen were all linked to on-again, off-again bids, but nothing ever came of them. It wasn’t until 2008 that Red Bull committed to rebuilding the circuit. They decided not to build the “Westschleife” extension so as to save money and to get the circuit back to an operational state sooner.

            However, Dietrich Mateschitz has gone on the record several times saying that the circuit will not host Formula 1 or MotoGP events, but rather limit itself to DTM and the likes of Formula 2.

          3. @KeithCollantine

            Is the Red Bull Ring (A1 Ring) still FIA Grade 1? As far as I’m aware the only Grade 1 circuits F1 doesn’t currently race at are Imola and Istanbul (Indianapolis was converted to a bike layout for Moto GP).

          4. @pjtierney I believe it was as of July last year, and I don’t think it or the regulations have changed sufficiently in the meantime to mean that’s no longer the case. Helmut Marko has said recently it is still FIA Grade 1.

      3. @keithcollantine – You mean the original Osterreichring near the Zeltweg airfield? I though it was dangerous?

      4. @keithcollantine

        It could turn out to be quite ironic as the Red Bull Ring is not what you might think of as a ‘Red Bull circuit’ – it’s more of a power over downforce track. Although they’d like the third sector.

        That, I think, is the major reason why the race won’t go ahead. The circuit is known as the Red Bull Ring. Red Bull would likely be the title sponsor of the event. And Red Bull would almost certainly fund it. As as if that wasn’t enough, Red Bull has never actually raced there. They are three-time World Champions and they have no useable data on the circuit. As a result, there would likely be a lot of pressure on the team to win there. But the circuit itself is the antithesis of everything Red Bull Racing have designed in their cars for years.

        I just can’t see Red Bull – the parent company – backing a race at a circuit that carries their name if they weren’t confident that there was a reasonable chance that they would win there. If they did it regardless, then the team would likely have to produce bespoke parts purely for that race just to stand a chance, which has the potential to throw their entire season out of order. Christian Horner has said that work on the 2013 car is nearly done, and they will likely have a developent schedule fully planned out. Any move to include the Austrian Grand Prix on the calendar would place it as the tenth race of twenty in the season, at a time when everyone is introducing plenty of new parts to their cars, and the nature of its placement – ie, at the last minute – would throw that schedule into disarray as Red Bull try to plan a new upgrade to fit in with their schedule without disrupting it too much. And finally, a loss at their home race would likely damage the team’s morale.

        There’s simply too much at stake for Red Bull to risk backing a race at the circuit.

    2. It got to be Istanbul..Bernie’s been dropping some hints lately..and of course…he just said a couple days a go that he’s headed over to Istanbul!

      1. @jaymenon10 – The World Motorsports Council is meeting there this week. And I believe the FIA prize-giving gala is being held there as well.

        That said, I’m reasonably confident that Turkey will return in 2013. I can’t see the Red Bull Ring happening.

    3. The stupidest circuit ever as everything that has something in common with Red Bull

  5. How about the german GP itself, is it going to be run in Nurburgring?

    1. They haven’t said yet, but I suspect it will be.

  6. Joe Saward seems to think it’s going to be a race at the Red Bull Ring.

  7. Good as Istanbul is, I would like to see a race in a country where there are a lot of fans (or at least one which is widely accessible). That leaves Magny-Cours, Paul Ricard and the A1 Ring, not an inspired choice, but it could be worse.

    1. LoreMipsumdOtmElor
      6th December 2012, 13:59

      Magny-Cours is a fantastic circuit but the A1-Ring is even better. Both would provide great races. Can’t speak for Paul Ricard as I’ve never been there.

  8. I would love to return to the old A1 ring. What a turnaround that would be! Istanbul would be fine to.

    1. The *old* A1 Ring, with the Hella-Licht Chicane at the top of the hill?
      That would be fun..

      1. It doesn’t exist anymore.

  9. OmarR-Pepper (@)
    5th December 2012, 16:04

    I’m feeling a little lazy to compare calendars right now… Which tracks go out (talking about the 2012 calendar) to make room to new venues next year?

    1. Valencia

      1. OmarR-Pepper (@)
        5th December 2012, 16:27

        thanks… honestly the 2012 race wan’t so entertaining for me, so I won’t miss it.

        1. Wow, really? I’d put it in the top 3 races of 2012.

  10. Flying Lobster 27
    5th December 2012, 16:12

    The Le Mans 24 Hours had been moved a week later to accommodate for New Jersey, and with NJ gone, at one point I believe Ecclestone had the bright idea to suggest that a French GP could take place a week before Britain… and on the same weekend as the new LM date! With this calendar, at least the insanity of having a direct competition between a Grand Prix and the Race of the Year is out (although there’s not much competition between the two when it comes to spectators’ value for money).

    1. Come on, that was obviously Bernie negotiating with the circuits. They wanted something that Bernie didn’t like, and they wouldn’t budge. So he deliberately scheduled the race to clash with Le Mans to get them to think twice about it.

  11. There are far worse tracks to put back on the calendar than Turkey! And if it keeps the amount of races at 20, even better. The more the merrier!

  12. why Istanbul? Bring back the Red Bull Ring!!!

  13. Honestly if I had to choose between going to Goodwood and watching a grand prix I’d probably choose Goodwood…I wonder if they’d put a big screen up somewhere?

  14. Gods, a busy July!!! Not good news for a man who celebrates his birthday in that month, but is yet to score a victory in the same!!!

  15. I´d like to see if the German Grand Prix would be held on the Eurospeedway using Turn 1.

  16. I don’t remember Goodwood ever clashing with F1, seeing as so many teams and drivers are present. I wonder if Goodwood will change its date, or if this will be the weakest Festival of Speed in years.

    1. thatscienceguy
      5th December 2012, 21:27

      FoS has always been scheduled for a weekend not clashing with with major motorsport to be able to attract top teams/people from different categories.

      F1 has made a mess of next years calendar, first forcing Le Mans to move to avoid a clash, and now creatung a clash with FoS. In one fell swoop they’ve damaged two of the most important motorsport events of the year. But maybe that was their intention….

      1. In one fell swoop they’ve damaged two of the most important motorsport events of the year.

        Yes, I’m sure this was all part of a master plan to weaken the appeal of Goodwood. The FIA and Bernie conspired to create a bogus race in New Jersey, which they then dropped and started negotiations with new circuits once Goodwood had set a date, giving them a ready-made excuse to move the German Grand Prix to that same weekend.

        Or, as a much more reasonable explanation, negotiations with alternate venues for New Jersey showed that the best way forward was to move the German Grand Prix forward by two weeks. The organisers of the race at the Nurburgring agreed to this on the condition that doing so would protect the race regardless of the circuit’s financial condition. All parties involved liked this solution, as it allowed for twenty races in the 2013 season, adding a replacement for New Jersey and protecting an existing – and some would say important – race on the calendar, and Goodwood was simply a victim of circumstance.

        But no, when I put it like that, it’s obviously an insidious conspiracy to weaken the Goodwood Festival of Speed for absolutely no reason at all, because Goodwood does not provide any kind of threat to Formula 1’s popularity.


        1. thatscienceguy
          6th December 2012, 12:01

          Says the guy who yesterday admitted he likes a conspiracy theory or two.
          Chill dude, far out…

  17. I expect Goodwood will announce a date change soon. You can’t have the Festival of Speed without F1. I’d guess they’d either push it back a week (Clashes with MotoGP, SRO Sprint Series & IndyCar) or have it the weekend after the Canadian GP (13th-16th June) but this still clashes with MotoGP & DTM

    1. Actually, with the German MotoGP round on the same weekend as the German GP, there is no reason why Goodwood couldn’t move the FoS to the 14th July. No F1 and MotoGP would mean all the drivers and riders could attend

  18. To Bernie:
    Bring back Brands Hatch!

    1. It’s in no condition to host a Formula 1 race. It’s too small, lacks the necessary safety features of all Grade-1 circuits, and has no room to expand or rebuild to accomodate the changes that would be needed to bring it up to standard.

  19. *sigh*

    We already have a race in Bahrain, we don’t need two races in countries with ongoing protests/wars.

    1. @joey-zyla – I’m not aware of any protests or wars in Turkey or Austria. The only possible thing I can think you’re referring to is Turkey’s action against Syria, and all they’re doing is defending themselves, trying to prevent a civil war in the country next door from spilling over and taking hold in their own lands. They’ve also agreed to let NATO station missile batteries inside their own borders, and while those missiles are aimed at Syria, they’re intended as a further deterrent.

      Heaven forbid that Formula 1 should hold a race in a country willing to defend itself from an ongoing bloody conflict in a neighbouring country and allow itself to be used as a base for Western military powers to try and bring stability to the region that has been missing for a year.

  20. I think a return to Magny-Cours would be awesome, but Bernie doesn’t seem to be in to the idea of a French GP.

  21. Worst move ever. They have moved the German GP to the same week end as the German round of the Moto GP. Crowds will suffer big time.

    1. thatscienceguy
      5th December 2012, 22:40

      And DTM at the Norisring apparently. Which was moved to avoid a clash with the original F1 date

    2. Right, because everyone who follows MotoGP also follows Formula 1, everyone who follows Formula 1 also follows MotoGP, and there is no-one who only follows one category, but has no interest in the other. That guy who lived down the hall from me in college and loved MotoGP whilst hating Formula 1 must have been a freak of nature.

      1. Nice sarcastic attitude mate. As if it isn’t going to effect attendance figures for both events.

  22. I wouldn’t mind a race in France, Turkey or Austria. I just don’t see them doing that many back-to-back races (in fact I don’t want them to), they should move Hungary back a week, then pair Silverstone and Germany together and pair the France/Turkey race with Hungary.

  23. How hot is Istanbul going to be in the middle of July? Still, it’s a good track, but Paul Ricard and the Red Bull Ring would also be good options.

    What I don’t understand is why heaven and earth is being moved to keep 20 races on the calendar, given that the workload for the teams is so heavy already.

    1. @adrianmorse

      What I don’t understand is why heaven and earth is being moved to keep 20 races on the calendar, given that the workload for the teams is so heavy already.

      The teams did twenty races this year, and didn’t complain about it at all. In fact, they’ve given twenty races as the ideal number for the championship. It may not be as ideal sixteen or eighteen races, but no doubt they’re getting some kind of compensation for it.

      So long as the teams are happy to do twenty races, I see no reason why that should change.

      1. @prisoner-monkeys, I seem to remember them complaining last year, though, so I don’t see why the burdens would suddenly have lifted.

        1. Because now that they’ve done it, they know that it’s possible, and it’s not as bad as they first thought.

          1. And if it was really so difficult, they could always simply not apply to race in 2013.

  24. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
    6th December 2012, 6:00

    Here’s an interesting link showing the number of races per season.

    From 1980 to 2000, there were about 16 races per season. From 2000-2100 that number jumped to 17-18. Now they are obviously pushing towards 20.

    As fans, of course, we want to watch as many races as possible.

    1. No, 16 is fine for me. What happens when you have 20 races is you don’t get to narrow it down to the truly best circuits. There should be at least two of the newer circuits (Yeongam, Buddh, Austin, etc.) removed.

  25. Michael (@freelittlebirds)
    6th December 2012, 6:01

    Oh, did anyone know that Morocco had hosted a F1 gran prix before?

  26. My guess, France or Turkey. Austria would be nice but unrealistic.

  27. Red Bull Ring makes perfect sense. They surely already have the money, whereas France and Turkey will no doubt need government funding.

    Also, F1 needs a short track. Shorter tracks mean more laps in a race, more traffic for the drivers and therefore more action for the fans in the grandstands. I don’t understand why F1 seems to favour those mid-length tracks…

    1. @jackysteeg

      F1 needs a short track. Shorter tracks mean more laps in a race, more traffic for the drivers and therefore more action for the fans in the grandstands.

      I agree: F1 needs more variety in its circuits and length is one of several ways tracks have become too similar.

  28. I hope it is the return of the Turkish GP, it’s my favourite F1 grade circuit by bar. Almost it’s pretty cool how the German GP will coincide with the FoS as I will most likely try and get to Goodwood next year.

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