Hamilton expected to take engine penalty at Spa

F1 Fanatic Round-up

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In the round-up: Lewis Hamilton is likely to use a new power unit this weekend, meaning he will take a grid penalty.

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Don’t pass up a chance to go to Spa-Francorchamps, says Gubstar:

It truly is one of the most magical places to watch a race. walking from the elephant campsite in Ster through the countryside that’s taken straight from a Stella Artois advert, arriving at the main gate and seeing Eau Rouge in the background, surrounded by the beautiful Ardennes forest. the great viewing from literally anywhere round the track, and watching the cars go full tilt through Radillion and Pouhon is literally the pinnacle for a fan.

Don’t get me wrong, the Becketts complex at Silverstone is mega, but for me, it doesn’t hold a candle to the setting that is Spa-Francorchamps. Coming from the UK it is the ultimate European road trip!
Gubstar

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On this day in F1

Michael Schumacher made his grand prix debut on this day 25 years ago at Spa-Francorchamps, but he retired early and Ayrton Senna won the race.

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Keith Collantine
Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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43 comments on “Hamilton expected to take engine penalty at Spa”

  1. Who cares about penalty.
    He will be first, Rosberg will be second, and another one sided championship will eventually come to an end.

    feelsbadman :/

    1. FeelsBadMan

    2. Your talking about atleast ten place grid penalty. I’ld be surprised if he could make up that much. Although if he does, then we are in for an exciting race.

  2. Interesting to see so much speculation that Red Bull is supposed to be the team to beat in 2017. I can understand why that is a popular school of thought with their aero and overall chassis expertise. It is also easy to figure why some folks think that nothing much will change and that Mercedes will still be on top next season. Since these changes are so much more significant than the last major F1 regulations overhaul, I don’t think anyone will really know which team will be on top until the rubber hits the track in 2017. Literally.

    1. Well… Ferrari have shown that they have forgotten how to make a championship car. For Mclaren, getting within 1 second a lap of the leaders is a championship achievement in itself. Merc and Ferrari customer teams are always crippled. Renault has a long way to go before they can even think of podiums.

      That leaves only Mercedes and Red Bull with a chance at 2017. So I honestly don’t believe that anything can happen next year. It’s most probably Merc and Red Bull at fron followed by Ferrari and the rest of the midfielders.

      1. I think that McLaren might have a chance to get in the mix there and leave Ferrari sitting in 4th on pace @todfod.

        Mercedes has shown that they can build a very good car, they still have the best engine to go from too. Red Bull have the advantage of feeling purpose again with Max and Dan battling for them, maybe Newey can do it once more, but they do have a slight engine advantage. McLaren will need Honda to make that extra step and put on the downforce and manage to make a well balance car instead of focussing too much on a single area, like they did too often in the recent past.

        Ferrari, yeah, they will be somewhere there, and mid season they will focus on “next year” again. Seb will probably pull some good out of the car despite that, but unless it turns out like 2012, I don’t see him really being in the fight for the year.

        1. ColdFly F1 (@)
          25th August 2016, 7:41

          I think it will be (in order) RBR, MER, MCL, FER, STR, WIL(?)
          This is based on where they are now, expected engine changes/upgrades, and historic ability to prepare for a major rule change.
          Further, I think that all teams have strong drivers and the car ones again will be the major factor in who will become WDC next year.

        2. It’s funny how every one comments that Merc is doing so well as they have the best engine, yet forget who’s second, third and sixth.
          A toro Rosso with a current motor would likely be much higher in the standings.

          Merc have a great engine AND also a great aero package.

          1. off course they have that @9chris9. That is why they are leading the pack. And as I wrote, I expect them to still have that and build on their current package and that is why I expect them to be at the top again in 2017.

            Red Bull have been getting closer with their engine and seem to have found purpose again with their aero too, making them fierce opponents. Then comes the rest.

        3. The big thing for next season is that the PU development will be wide open, potentially allowing teams to be able to catch up with regards to development… RBR have proven once again, they don’t necessarily need the best PU to be in contention, but, do need more power than they currently have. I don’t know how much longer Iilien will be working with Renault/RBR in the development, but, I am pretty certain it is his influence that has pushed the PU performance to that we have seen this season.

          The unknown factor still is how much more is in the Merc PU. Every time another team appears to get close, they appear to be able to turn up another notch and extend their performance, although, we are starting to see reliability issues from them.

          Honda last season were the absolute jokers in the pack, with poor reliability and distinct lack of power. They have stepped forward massively this season and I suspect next season will bring a more competitive PU. We know that McLaren can build a competitive car and potentially have a driver who could capitalise (whether Alonso is still capable is yet to be seen). Also having a hungry new young blood in the team may give them the push they need (assuming they take Vandorne to replace Button).

          1. @Maddme
            The token system is being removed, but there will still be a limit on the total number of engines for each driver so it won’t be a complete free-for-all on PU development.

          2. I am very aware that the PU limit is in place, however it still allows a manufacturer to run if necessary 5 completely different spec PU’s (obviously within FIA specs) over the course of a season.

            The major factor will still be for some PU manufacturers to revisit some design flaws that have been to costly (tokens) to have corrected before!

    2. I think most of them want to deflect attention and say ‘we will be there but expect X to in front’ so that they don’t get most of the annoying mediatic attention. While it is obvious from Mercedes to point out to RedBull (such as RB will point out Merc as the favourite), I guess Ferrari and McLaren are just using the reputation of good chassis and aero from RB to direct their fingers.

      Anyway considering the change, it could be anyone amongst those. I am really disappointed that STR doesn’t get any engine upgrade this year, their car was really amongst the best. Like Williams did a great job at the last main redesign (slipping backwards afterwards), FI has also shown a great upgrade. While it doesn’t allow those teams to compete at the front, it’s the kind of leap which can occur amongst the big four and provide a significant advantage over the others.

      That’s really anyone to grab for next year even if Ferrari and McLaren are still looking as outsiders given their recent form.

    3. @bullmello From a purely financial point of view the upcoming rules change is great for Red Bull. Their budget is a match for anyone’s, but unlike Mercedes and Ferrari none of it is going on power unit development. Power unit development is massively expensive, but Renault pick up the tab for that. So if any team can afford to build dozens of iterations of slightly different wings or noses or whatever, and crash-test them in pursuit of a perfect solution, it’s Red Bull.

      1. That’s an interesting aspect. But somehow I find it hard to fathom Mercedes and Ferrari not being able to afford as many wing iterations. But boy if RBR don’t have to pay a penny for their power units AND they will have the same ability to integrate said units with their new chassis with the same vigour as Mercedes and Ferrai who are totally in house, then that’s a sweet deal for RBR and one wonders why they tried to end their relationship a few years ago. I also wonder how massive power unit development expenditure is as time spreads costs over more years and they are more in the tweaking phase having done the heavy lifting on these units a few years ago. I’m likely oversimplifying here as perhaps with tokens gone the floodgates of expenditure will open up, in which case I’d still be worried about Mercedes if I were any other team.

        1. “But somehow I find it hard to fathom Mercedes and Ferrari not being able to afford as many wing iterations.”

          It’s right in the comment you are replying to:

          “Their budget is a match for anyone’s, but unlike Mercedes and Ferrari none of it is going on power unit development.”

          1. @Martin Yes Keith has opined RBR has more money for more wing experiments and I just suggest that if that becomes the deciding factor I don’t see Mercedes and Ferrari as being unable to expand their budget to accommodate more experimentation on aero as it suits them. Let’s talk about Ferrari’s extra 100 mill or so they get annually just for being Ferrari, that RBR doesn’t get.

            So I don’t think the two are mutually exclusive. I think Mercedes and Ferrari have plenty of money to do aero and engines at the same time as they have been. I doubt they’ll sit there saying ok we’ve spent all this money on units so let’s just sit on our hands and let RBR steamroll over us with a fancy wing without reacting. Would be quite a waste to spend the millions on the engine and then not go a few extra steps for aero…yet in reality everything will be going together at once. It is about the total package moreso than ever.

          2. “I don’t see Mercedes and Ferrari as being unable to expand their budget to accommodate more experimentation on aero as it suits them”

            So in your view Merc and Ferrari can expand their budgets but RB cannot?

      2. @keithcollantine – interesting perspective.. If what you say turns out to be correct then it would seem better NOT be a works team to win championships. Oh Ron..

        1. Hmmm… How much are McLaren paying Honda for engines though? This could be good for them too!

      3. @keithcollantine – Excellent point that I hadn’t thought about in quite that way. It does make sense, especially with the considerable resources that Red Bull have at their disposal.

        I’m still hoping against hope for a bit of serendipity or magic from one of the lesser teams to find something to get an edge. Unlikely, but still hoping. Maybe they can read something and get a tip from the new book that is supposed to be coming out by Ross Brawn about F1.

  3. Willem Cecchi (@)
    25th August 2016, 7:38

    I don’t know how many of you are on Instagram. It irritates the living hell out of me that all the unofficial Formula One accounts hashtag the most useless things just to gain followers. One accounts attributes every single post to Jules Bianchi with #JB17 or #JB17Forever #NeverForget even if it is a post of a Simtek. Another professes with each post that Senna was #God. Ugh.

  4. I doubt that a penalty will make a huge difference in the scheme of things. The Merc is so superior that a driver like Hamilton will cut through the field fairly easily.

    My guess is that he’ll still make the podium or 4th at worst.

    It will make the race a bit more interesting though.

    1. ColdFly F1 (@)
      25th August 2016, 8:12

      The biggest risk following a Spa penalty is lap 1 turn 1.
      After that it’s ‘cruising’ to a top 5 finish.

      1. @coldfly – yes, historically being on pole is much safer than being in the middle of the pack coming into La Source for the first time, on cold tyres and cold brakes.
        @dbradock – if Hamilton gets through the first few laps well he could make some real progress. If he sustains aero or suspension damage, or a puncture, then it will be really tough. That risk is the real penalty for this race.

        1. Agreed, he needs to be sensible for the first couple of laps.

        2. ColdFly F1 (@)
          25th August 2016, 11:03

          It might be better/safer to start from the pit lane!

          1. Yeah this worries me. Last time it seemed better to start from the pitlane he decided he could make more places if he started on track then got in an accident…

  5. Ferrari may wait until Monza for promising engine upgrade”

    The title is anyway lost so it doesn’t matter whether they wait till Monza or not. The point is that it should be good enough to keep up with Red Bull.

  6. Mclaren will be ahead of Ferrari in 2017. There I said it!

  7. On COTD: Spot on. Spa is a great place, as a racing track it’s second to none in F1 and geographically it’s close to so many countries that it should be the real European GP and because it’s “minutes” from Netherlands and because Max if half-Belgian, I think 2016 Spa will be Max’s GP.

    1. My first COTD! Woohoo! For the geographical reasons you have stated that’s exactly why it should NEVER be removed from the calendar!

    2. The United States Grand Prix should be held at Road America or Watkins Glen. And no, they don’t need a new pit complex or other “upgrades”. Unload the d@#$ cars and race them! Like they used to (1970s)

  8. This would obviously be an abuse of the rules but what is stopping Hamilton taking enough new engines for one per race allowing him to run more aggressive engine nodes every race and having a ‘new engine’ power advantage every race. He’ll start from the back this race anyway…

    1. Nothing in the rules, but for him to have a fresh engine every race Mercedes would have to turn up to spa with 9 brand new engines (10 if Rosberg is getting one this race too). I dont think they’ll have that many available.

      1. Presumably they’d all have to be fitted to the car at some point over the weekend, too. That would push the mechanics almost to Maldonado levels of workload.

        1. Almost, lol!

        2. Haha! True!

  9. Let’s hope that Rosberg misses the start so he can spice up the show a little bit, Max jumping Rosberg for the lead will be a perfect fit, but again I think it will be game over by the first straight.

  10. even if VES jumps Rosberg for the lead nico will take it back on 2nd or 3rd lap on the straight after eau rouge. There is a reason why mercedes is changing the engine here. Spa or monza is the best place to swap the engine.

    In Toto’s place I would get another engine in Monza and get there penalty and use both engines till the end of season (Is this allowed/possible?). In both cases it will harm mercedes at minimum.

    1. There’s no point, if they want 2 engines they can just get them both at spa. Taking another penalty in monza would just be pointless

  11. Rosberg- “he’s beaten me the last two years over a championship year, and he is now ahead of me at the moment.” Isn’t that 3 if you count 2013? Anyway as for the engine penalty for Hamilton, he will surely be doing a rain dance. As for 2017 being chasis dependent again I know people often think that Red Bull have the best chasis overall on the grid but that theory is at the very least, debatable. There have been races gone by where the chasis is more important than engine grunt and Merc has still come out on top. Why there is still this perception that Red Bull is a world beater chasis wise baffles me. The only logical explanation I can think of is Newey’s reputation as a design wizard in years gone by.

  12. The interview of Nico Rosberg on what he thinks about Lewis Hamilton is interesting and revealing. As it comes during the summer break, it probably means he is more calm and thinking more clearly. His responses to the questions show that he rates Lewis’s speed as the toughest thing to match. Further he seems to have realised that he may have race wins but he is beaten twice for the championship.

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