Sebastian Vettel, Ferrari, Hungaroring, 2017

No one expected Ferrari’s 2017 success – Arrivabene

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In the round-up: Maurizio Arrivabene says Ferrari’s performance this year caught people by surprise.

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@Fixy is impressed by the driving manners demonstrated by Valtteri Bottas:

The US GP taught me that Bottas is the most correct driver of all. He never closed the door on an approaching driver, never squeezed someone to the outside of the track while making a move. He chose a line and stuck to it, where the only assurance of an overtake was taking the better line.

Ricciardo for example clearly pushed Bottas out at turn one when there was no need to, the circuit is two thousand metres wide and Ricciardo pointed his car towards the outside kerb. I was happy when Bottas kept the position despite running wide.

What Raikkonen is said to to have done to Verstappen, squeezing him towards the inside, is something else Bottas didn’t do. I may be forgetting something from previous races but I’ve warmed a bit more to Bottas since Austin.
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  • 62 comments on “No one expected Ferrari’s 2017 success – Arrivabene”

    1. Every driver in F1 raced somewhere else before. Why not IndyCar? If Haas wants to stay irrelovant in the states, keep doing what they are doing. If you want to matter in the states, get Newgarden, Rahal, and/or Kyle Busch on the phone and in the car.

      1. Kyle Busch Hahaha

        1. @rvg013 One of the most talented racing drivers of his generation! The number of race wins he has at his age is astounding. In my opinion he’ll go down as one of the best NASCAR drivers in history, and if he tried his hand at other categories then I think he has the talent to be successful. I can envisage him dabbing his hand into the odd race here or there, but given his high salary, job security, and the low number of off weekends he has, I can’t see it happening in the way I would like!

      2. I saw quite a nice tweet about this from Will Buxton so I can’t take the credit (even though I will correct his tweet). The reason is simple:
        Mercedes are in F1 to sell road cars.
        Ferrari sell road cars to race in F1.
        Haas are in F1 to promote Gene Haas’ international automation business.

        Having an American driver in F1 for Haas would not help promote the automation business. It’s not in the business model. It’s the same reasoning that neither of the race drivers for Mercedes is German and neither of the race drivers for Ferrari is Italian.

        1. Of course, Mercedes had a German driver (OK, technically a dual national) until the end of last year and, had he not left, would still have him in the car. As for Ferrari, they do have an Italian driver on their books (Giovinazzi).

    2. Button doesn’t half talk some crap sometimes, and seems to believe his own hype. If Lewis racing against him and Rosberg has made him a more confident driver, then it must have made both of them more insecure.

      And this issue of Lewis’s mental fragility that keeps coming up as a rod to beat him needs to be analyzed a bit more. In Lewis worst year (due to mental fragiliity), he still trounced Button on poles and equaled him on race wins.

      If a mentally cracked teammate can do that, and beat you everywhere else (even in your so called forte of wet/ mixed conditions), it doesn’t say very much for your own abilities…..does it??

      As for Rosberg, it took Lewis having 6 engine issues, starting from dead last twice, a DNF, and reliability worse than Alonso’s that season for him to win the WDC by a mere 5 points.

      Point is, even with Lewis at his worst, neither of these drivers were a match for him over a season. And at his best, he once lapped Button in a race (where Button had no issues), and once finished ahead of Rosberg (despite starting 20 positions behind him).

      1. As for Rosberg, it took Lewis having 6 engine issues, starting from dead last twice, a DNF, and reliability worse than Alonso’s that season for him to win the WDC by a mere 5 points.

        What? He started from the back once in 2016, only had a failure once during a race, and 2 during qualifying. Reliability worse than Alonso? Recheck your stats.

        1. @mashiat, The quoted stats are correct.

          Hamilton started from the back in China and Spa. The reason he started from the back in Spa was because he had so many engine issues that he had to replace a heap of parts. So no, he didn’t just have 3 engine issues. The engine issues he had in qualifying also meant he had to start from P10 twice as well.

          In comparison to all that, Rosberg had one gearbox change and he got punted off by Vettel once. Well and a DNF because he rammed into Hamilton in Spain of course, but that was his own doing and he took Hamilton out at the same time.

          Hamilton completely annihilated Rosberg in 2016. Even more so than in 2015. Still, with all the extra technical issues on Hamilton’s side and the Mercedes being fast enough to let Rosberg usually take at least P2, there wasn’t enough in it in the points to overcome all that. Or at least not that last DNF swaying 28 more points in the direction of Rosberg.

          1. tgu (@thegrapeunwashed)
            28th October 2017, 11:33

            Rosberg had one gearbox change and he got punted off by Vettel once.

            @patrickl just to add a note about Rosberg’s ‘misfortunes’ that season. In Malaysia, had Rosberg not been punted off by Vettel and had Hamilton not suffered an engine failure (i.e. had misfortune not befallen either) then Rosberg would have finished 2nd.

            But Hamilton’s engine blew and Rosberg was punted off, so Rosberg’s great misfortune was that he could only finish 2nd.

            So much for Rosberg’s misfortune!

        2. @Mashiat (@mashiat)

          Recheck your stats.

          I did, and though others have confirmed it, here they are again. Interestingly, Lewis Hamilton the ONLY driver that is expected to have a perfect season in order to beat a teammate or win the WDC.

          – An ERS failure at the start of qualifying in China, relegating him to 22nd on the grid. He finished seventh.
          – An ERS failure during Q3 in Russia, restricting the Mercedes driver to 10th on the grid. He finished second.
          – An engine mode issue during the European GP. He finished fifth having started in 10th.
          – Used all 5 of his season engine allocation by the mid way point Race 12 Spa, forcing him to start from 22nd on the grid, finished 3rd
          – An engine blow-out in Malaysia which cost him 25 points since he was 22seconds ahead of the Red bull in 2nd

          At the end of the season the engine usage statistics were:
          Hamilton: ICE: 6 TC: 8 MGU-H: 8 MGU-K: 6 ES: 5 CE: 5
          Rosberg: ICE: 5 TC: 5 MGU-H: 5 MGU-K: 5 ES: 4 CE: 4

          Source: f1technical (.) net

      2. It’s likely Jenson and Nico converged on the same tactics of trying to crack Lewis’s frame of mind to beat him on track, which is also standard procedure in F1. I believe Ron when he said Lewis had his part to play in the Alonso mind games, but I always thought that Lewis was a bit naiive when he went up against Jenson and Nico as they were potentially mates to him as well as teammates.

        Either way Lewis performed well whilst going up against them and vice versa, even though most think these are Lewis’s worst years. Lewis was quoted last year as saying he ‘has no friends in formula 1’, so has likely learnt to protect his mindset in the heat of battle which means he’s going to be way above performing ‘well’ if similar circumstances arise. Ricciardo would be a good teammate to test that :)).

      3. tgu (@thegrapeunwashed)
        28th October 2017, 8:45

        @kbdavies good comment. When drivers rate the strengths and weaknesses of others usually their real interest is to paint themselves in a better light. Button was a very fine driver, but in two-car finishes his record against Hamilton is 13 races to 24, that’s an absolute hammering. By contrast, Button’s score against Alonso is 10 races to 11.

      4. I’m a Hamilton fan and see nothing wrong with that article. He isn’t delving into his own stats against Lewis he is saying if and when a teammate managed to get ahead, it messed with his head in the past. Now he just knows he is the best despite an off weekend like Russia and Monaco this year.

        The old Lewis would maybe not have given back the place in Hungary but his faith in himself is unshakeable now and he knows he is the best. He knew he could dominate weak minded Vettel despite no evidence that Ferrari would fall over themselves in the proceeding races.

        Lewis is now the full package and that is why he is getting respect from old rivals and peers alike. He has ascended to a level of greatness that cannot be denied.

        1. And of course predictably there is no mention of LH’s poor starts last year which could also have made the difference given the narrow points gap ahead of the final race. I think last year showed exactly what JB is talking about. LH’s higher unreliability had him using the media to accuse his team of sabotage, of course without actually using the word. Pity me because they switched our crews ‘for no apparent reason’…’someone doesn’t want me to win’…’Nico doesn’t have to worry about unreliability’…’when I’m done with F1 and I write my book you will know the truth’…

          No wonder the likes of Jackie Stewart said last year that he just thinks LH needs to be more grateful. Oh of course LH often says he’s grateful. He just also says a lot of things that make him sound entitled and ungrateful too.

          I find LH disingenuous or ‘un-genuine’ as Priestly puts it, and that why I have never been able to warm up to the guy. I’m not alone. And I get a kick out of how his fans will immediately resort to slamming the person saying anything that appears as a slight against LH, even when they are complimenting him as well. Predictably it becomes about ‘what did JB ever do in F1,’ ‘let’s analyze LH’s car issues throughout his career’ and ‘Jackie Stewart just has a hate on for LH’… what did he ever do in F1…what does he know’…even though he was complimentary of LH yet again yesterday on the Sky practice coverage.

          LH is a winner and a 4 time Champ and has made it work for him, but for me it hasn’t been pretty, hasn’t been my cup of tea. That’s just me. I could never get anywhere near behind MS either, and consider LH, as I have said before, an angel compared to him. That’s ok isn’t it? That he’s just not my cup of tea? That I acknowledge his numbers but just not his style? Please insert ‘Robbie’s a hater’ remarks below ;)

          1. Well of course you’re welcome to your views. However I’ve seen you express them a couple of times now. What’s that about ? Not sure why you need to keep repeating them. We get it. Pls move on.

          2. tgu (@thegrapeunwashed)
            28th October 2017, 17:28

            @robbie

            And I get a kick out of how his fans will immediately resort to slamming the person saying anything that appears as a slight against LH

            Do you? That’s a bit sad. A lot of the criticism of Hamilton holds him to a different standard than other drivers, that’s why it upsets Hamilton fans.

            LH’s higher unreliability had him using the media to accuse his team of sabotage, of course without actually using the word. Pity me because they switched our crews ‘for no apparent reason’…’someone doesn’t want me to win’…’Nico doesn’t have to worry about unreliability’…’when I’m done with F1 and I write my book you will know the truth’…

            How is that so different from Alonso 2007: ‘my teammate doesn’t respect me’; ‘Ron Dennis lied to me’; ‘my team wants Hamilton to beat me’? Yet you never criticise Alonso, a guy who tried to blackmail his team because he couldn’t compete with a rookie! The same Alonso who we know colluded in the use of stolen data, but then used it as a weapon. The same Alonso who probably colluded in the 2009 crashgate debacle, because why else would he comply with such an early call to pit – a call which would under normal circumstances disadvantage him? The same Alonso who, in 2010, asked Ferrari to switch him with Massa during the race at a time when team orders were expressly forbidden – the team complied and landed themselves in all sorts of trouble.

            But look back at my posting history and you will see that I don’t bang on and on and on about Alonso, because I don’t get my kicks from denigrating drivers and winding up their fans, but you go on about Hamilton incessantly.

            It seems that you hold Hamilton to very different standards than other drivers. Why?

            1. “a guy who tried to blackmail his team because he couldn’t compete with a rookie! The same Alonso who we know colluded in the use of stolen data, but then used it as a weapon.”

              No he didn’t.
              why don’t you read the court transcript which is available via an easy google search, rather than rely on pub-talk lies?

            2. tgu (@thegrapeunwashed)
              28th October 2017, 17:59

              No he didn’t.

              No he didn’t what?

            3. @thegrapeunwashed If I appear to hold LH to a different standard that is usually based on an observers opinion, usually that of an LH fan. Otherwise I find I don’t hold him to any ‘standard’ as I don’t know what a standard Champion looks like. I just know why I have never been able to get behind LH. And what brought it up today is JB’s and Priestly ‘s quotes, which add some consistency to what has been my reason all along for not being an LH fan.

              LH is a big icon of F1, and in the headlines all the time naturally. I don’t think I’m any more ‘incessant’ than anyone else, but I do enjoy setting the record straight when I read such one-sidedness that usually involves the slagging of anyone who comes anywhere near a slight toward LH. So I just like to remind people once in a while of the things the likes of JB and Priestly, whose armchairs are a tad closer to reality than ours, confirm.

              You can take ‘get a kick’ as ‘shake my head’ at the commentary that immediately falls toward the school yard lingo such as ‘ya well he was this and he was that and what does he know anyway…’ at even the tiniest negative toward LH.

              As to your goings on about FA. Never been a huge fan of his either, but I like him and can get behind him much more than LH. As I have said…that’s just me. Of course, you have forgotten the part in 2007 where LH was first to set the whole thing in motion by disobeying a team order which blocked FA from a hot quali run. Not sure why I don’t get to reiterate things once in a while, usually directed toward the same posters that keep on and on with their own predictable rhetoric.

            4. tgu (@thegrapeunwashed)
              29th October 2017, 8:33

              No, you’re a hypocrite @robbie.

              And what brought it up today is JB’s and Priestly ‘s quotes, which add some consistency to what has been my reason all along for not being an LH fan.

              Priestly said Hamilton was playing the driver’s game, the same as they all do, i.e. he was doing what was expected – we’ve seen exactly that behaviour from Vettel and Alonso, but it is only Hamilton you slag off.

              As for Button, he said Hamilton used to lack inner confidence, does that really confirm in your mind your dislike for him? That’s an unpleasant attitude.

              Otherwise I find I don’t hold him to any ‘standard’ as I don’t know what a standard Champion looks like.

              I said you hold him to different standards (of behaviour, obviously) than others, and this silly retort is the best you can manage? We’ve all seen Vettel and Alonso behave far worse than Hamilton on many occasions – I even enumerated a few of Alonso’s misdeeds – yet these drivers get little or no criticism from you, whereas you slate Hamilton all the time. You still haven’t explained why you feel the need to repeatedly single out Hamilton. Holding one person to entirely different standards than others is grossly hypocritical.

            5. @thegrapeunwashed I think you are taking a lot of license with what I am saying in order to suit your argument. I have clearly said LH is just not my cup of tea. I suppose unless you like all drivers equally, all musicians, all bands, all polical parties and politicians etc etc, you too are hypocritical.

              Let’s just cut to your last two sentences. Why LH? Only because he is the Champion of the day who has almost won 4 in a row at Mercedes but for NR beating him last year, and therefore is the centre of the bulk of the conversation around F1. As a result of that barely a day goes by when there isn’t headlines about him, and thus conversation about him, which affords me the opportunity to repeatedly state my points when others repeatedly state their’s.

              Just because you brought up FA’s situation in 07, and then still refuse to acknowledge when I bring up the role LH had in starting that whole chain of events, I’m therefore a hypocrite? Come on…who is it really that should be looking in the mirror? You can’t bring yourself to acknowledge LH petulantly disobeying a team order, which resulted in FA losing a hot quali run, which was a rookie poking a recent 2-WDC bear, and yet I’m the hypocritical one for not just lying down and accepting your explanations as the truth, the end, now fall in line or you’re a hypocrite…

              Putting in bold letters “the same as they all do” does not mean I have liked or have to therefore like LH’s style of how he does it. How he conducts himself. All drivers are different as are all humans, no? Can’t put it any more plainly than he is just not my cup of tea. If that makes me a hypocrite to you, that is more a reflection on you than me. Why can’t you accept that I am just not a fan? Do you need me to conform in order to have power over me or something? Do you need to win me over so that I somehow start to support LH, or see that since he is no better nor worse than anyone else, I should just fall in line. Sorry but athletes, politicians, musicians etc etc are either going to do it for me or not. Are you really any different? Or are we both just hypocrites then?

            6. tgu (@thegrapeunwashed)
              29th October 2017, 14:53

              @robbie

              I suppose unless you like all drivers equally, all musicians, all bands, all polical parties and politicians etc etc, you too are hypocritical.

              I’m talking about judging people by different standards, whether you like them or not is irrelevant.

              …barely a day goes by when there isn’t headlines about him, and thus conversation about him, which affords me the opportunity to repeatedly state my points

              Of course if you dislike something he said/did say so, but don’t criticise him for something where you wouldn’t criticise another, that’s called hypocrisy.

              …you brought up FA’s situation in 07, and then still refuse to acknowledge when I bring up the role LH had in starting that whole chain of events

              I’m not refusing to acknowledge anything. You gave a list of reasons why Hamilton is appalling, I gave a list to show that by the standards you judge Hamilton, Alonso is far worse. But as you say yourself, you quite like Alonso; it is hypocritical to damn Hamilton for being someone unworthy of your esteem but then to turn a blind eye to Alonso’s far more serious failings.

              Can’t put it any more plainly than he is just not my cup of tea.

              That’s fine, but then you hold him to very different standards than other drivers. If you really dislike Hamilton for the reasons you initially gave, you should absolutely loathe Alonso. But we know that’s not the case. When someone dislikes one person ‘because they behave badly’, but is blind to the same or worse in another, I do wonder at the real reasons for the antipathy.

              Here’s the thing: I’m a Hamilton fan, it’s therefore pretty obvious that I must like Vettel and Alonso less than Hamilton, otherwise I’d be a fan of theirs, or of no driver in particular; but I don’t spend my time posting one-sided criticism of everything they do or say, while turning a blind eye to Hamilton’s misdeeds because, well that would be hypocritical, wouldn’t it? And I don’t get my kicks from unfairly denigrating drivers and/or upsetting their fans. Is that any way to behave?

              Whether you warm to Hamilton or not, don’t you think it would reflect better on you if your criticism of him was even-handed? And if the criteria by which you judged them all led you to damn them all, the worst you’d come across is as a crusty old curmudgeon who’d hadn’t changed with the times, rather than as someone with a personal and irrational animus against one of the drivers: an anti-fan.

            7. @thegrapeunwashed I think where we differ is that you have decided on my behalf that I should be ‘appalled’ at FA because you are, and that I am appalled at LH instead. I am not appalled at either. You’re convinced FA knew about crashgate ahead of time. I’m not. You seem to deny LH started the ball rolling in 07 with FA by ignoring a team order, which goes a long way to explaining why FA felt the need to do something. RD managed it all poorly. So you lay everything on FA for 07…I do not. Nor was I ‘appalled’ when SV had a little track rage this year, or lashed out a few times.

              For me to be ‘appalled’ at someone in F1 would be to consider MS’s behaviour, Briatore’s at Benetton and at Renault, Piquet jr’s, Moseley and BE’s for many things including sheltering MS/Benetton and orchestrating MS/Ferrari…MS getting off scot free for 94 (allowed the WDC by the FIA) and Jerez 97. Countless dirty MS moves.

              What I thought was poor, was LH admitting off-track distractions cost him on the track in 2011. As well as his extra sense of entitlement that I find went up a notch and has stayed there since he won the 2015 WDC in the US. And of course it was terrible to hear his fake gratitude toward his own team last year in amongst the accusations of sabotage…all season. And then there’s the one-sided fans who deny the very quotes from LH himself last year. That’s when I want to respond.

              I think you are simply projecting how you think I should think, upon me, forgetting that I may not have nearly as harsh an outlook on LH, or FA, or SV, as I do other people and aspects in F1 throughout the years. Probably the result of a texting environment where you perhaps can’t grasp that LH’s stuff, as well as FA’s and SV’s is small potatoes compared to other stuff that has gone on, and I’m really not all that bent out of shape over it. Doesn’t mean I won’t put up a good argument and support it with why I think a certain way. For you, FA ‘probably ‘ knew about crashgate equals guilty as charged. FA is solely responsible for 07. I simply disagree, so of course you think that since I don’t think like you that makes me a hypocrite.

            8. tgu (@thegrapeunwashed)
              30th October 2017, 10:00

              @robbie I’m simply holding up a mirror to you, whether you choose to look into it properly is your business. Let’s call it a day on this increasingly tedious argument, but why not read my comments again when you’re a little bit calmer and ask yourself whether there’s any truth in them? Because I think you know very well that getting a kick out of unpleasantness isn’t very nice; and that’s something you freely admitted to doing in your very first post.

            9. No that’s ok, I’m good. And calm.

        2. Lewis’ best season was 2007. he hasn’t ascended at all afaic. Just collected trophies in the best team. He certainly hasn’t reached those great heights of ‘beating Alonso’ since. Didn’t even make a chink in Vettel’s Red Bull armor.

    3. Don’t agree with cotd, Ricciardo didn’t want to push Bottas like he did and Bottas completely floored it off track, besides Bottas has clumsy crashed twice this season. I actually think Kimi is the most sensible racer on the grid, he’s not ruthless and that hurts him.
      COTA should have gotten more than 7.7.
      Button is the reason why Ham isn’t the undisputed the best driver of the decade. Not that Button is, but Hamilton wasn’t as strong as the best driver of the decade.

      1. Button beat Lewis on points in a season where Lewis lost a cumulative 120 points through reliability, twice retiring from the lead of a grand prix.

        Danny Ric beat Seb on merit and he left the team because he knows he needs a weak teammate to flatter him. Now he’s holding back Ferrari’s chances in the WDC by insisting they keep re-signing an ageing, slow, useless Kimi what a great team player Seb is.

        If those are the two candidates for driver of the decade, Lewis wins hands down.

      2. @peartree This might be the first time i agree with you! Kimi often seems to just keep out of the messy bits too much–like he often seems to lose out in the opening laps simply because he is the one who ducks out and subsequently ends up out of position– he then refrains from doing hairy, over the track limits overtakes where bits go flying and with this style he just can’t compete with the Vettels, Hamiltons and Verstappens anymore. And yes, i realise that his pace in clean air also hasn’t been the best for some time, but still. And of course, when ever he is in a position to not lose out, he gets involved in a multi-car shananigan, usually with verstappen and/or vettel, and his race is ruined once again. (See Spa 16, china 16, Singapore 17, Spain 17, …..). And here i thought i had suffered enough during those painful McLaren years.

        1. @mrboerns yes.

          Jettc, I dont mean that sebs the best of the decade, I meant that an undisputed great should have handled Button, better. In short maybe hams the best but its not clear cut.

      3. @peartree

        I actually think Kimi is the most sensible racer on the grid

        Except when it comes to Bottas.

    4. Hamilton’s mentor is Justin Bieber so what do you expect?

      1. Pure muppetry!

      2. Your mentor is obviously Donald Trump. You both like to make things up.

    5. Ferrari have had a great improvement from last year. It’s seems just as they wanted to find that extra performance to compete with Mercedes they fell short. But getting rid of key personal, only for them to go to Mercedes (Costa, Allison) would not be smart. Hopefully Vettel can go one better next year or Danny, Max, Fernando etc can stop Lewis and Mercedes cruising to another title.

      1. Did they though? It looked more like Mercedes failed to improve enough. Plus their car was/is a setup nightmare.

        After Ferrari had to ditch their oil burning system (Baku) and Mercedes got a better grip on how their car works in relation to the tyres, Mercedes has improved and Ferrari dropped back a little.

      2. Ferrari didn’t get rid of Allison. Allison’s wife sudden death days before the 2016 Australian GP made it impossible for him to work outside of the UK in order to take care of his 3 children. Ferrari did treat Allison very well during his tragedy and gave him and extended holiday, however the stroke which broker the camel’s back was when Allison was asked to join the team during the British GP weekend and he refused. Marchionne decided to let him go simply because it was counterproductive to retain him against his will.
        As for Costa, I don’t have to repeat the same post countless times… He failed as a technical director and was fired for that reason. He was hired by Mercedes as a head of chassis development… two different roles….
        @patrickl
        Ferrari didn’t drop back in terms of car development (raw speed), in Singapore Seb was 1st, In Malaysia Vettel set the fastest lap of the race (track record) and made a blistering stint of 18 laps on 1:34 something even Hamilton couldn’t manage,In Japan Vettel was in the first raw. Reliability is part of this sport, I’m not saying Vettel wasn’t lucky…But in terms of car development Ferrari didn’t drop this season compared to the competition unless you have problems looking into the statistics.
        This season has been about Mercedes/Ferrari being strong depending on how their cars adapted to the different circuits layouts and this is due to the difference in the design :
        Mercedes : Long wheelbase + less drag + more power
        Ferrari : Short wheelbase + high downforce + more drag and less power
        The thing is before making such assumption you need to thoroughly look into data, btw expect Ferrari to be strong again in Brazil/Abu Dhabi

    6. Now do that extraction test again with a halo on. Seriously, are we sure this has been thought through properly? I know it has been done in controlled conditions, but this halo is absolutely going to get in the way… that’s exactly what it’s designed for after all.

      Personally I would still like to see a solution with no hoops around the side, but apparently there is no design at all that meets this criteria. And I do not believe Alonso would have been able to escape in 2014, despite what some have said. I have big worries about halo.

      1. @john-h They have run multiple extraction test’s with the Halo both away from the track & at the track with race drivers. The Halo trialed on cars during race weekends in it’s current form add’s 3-4 additional seconds for a driver to get out, However the version that will be on the cars next year will be more integral to the overall car design so drivers will be able to pull themselves up/out using it which will reduce that by 1-2 seconds.

        As to situations like Alonso’s in Melbourne, They were surprised to find that the Halo actually helped the driver get out in that case as it prevented the car from rolling over as far as it would without it. Currently when the car is upside down/on its side it’s resting on the roll bar, With the Halo on the car rest’s on the Halo which actually leaves a bit of extra room for a driver to get out.

        They showed some of the extraction test’s in the video they released not too long ago.
        https://youtu.be/AYkGjUHstKY?t=18m24s

        They have been testing various concept’s of the Halo for several years, The FIA have performed every crash/impact test, Every extraction scenario dozens of times over those years both with there own personnel & race drivers in F1 & other categories. They have also worked with medical teams to ensure safety isn’t compromised as far as access or extraction goes & have worked to come up with new procedures to pull drivers out quickly (As seen in the video linked above) & give safety crews new tools to remove the Halo quickly if necessary.

        I have concerns about the looks of the things but based on everything i’ve heard from people in/around F1 as well as elsewhere actually I have no concerns about the Halo creating additional safety issues.

        1. Great comment

        2. Thanks for your insight as always @gt-racer. I’m sure these things have been looked at in great detail, and admittedly I am going on more instinct here. Yes I watched the full video when it was released, and what struck me was they show one test with just the safety cell and not the same test with front suspension/wheels. In this situation, the roll bar will be at least one point of contact with the ground, and the halo without question is going to make driver extraction more difficult.

          In my opinion, more attention is needed to stop parts of the car coming lose like Perez wheel at Baku for a relatively small shunt, but ok the Alonso Kimi incident is one where the Halo would help. On balance, it just ‘feels’ wrong to me to increase extraction time in most situations (not even getting into the aesthetics) – but time will tell on this one.

          Thanks again for the insight.

      2. @john-h. No, I’m quite sure they dreamed this all up on the back of a fag packet during a boozy restaurant session.. The FIA will be certain to contact you concerning your theoretical solutions. Let us know how it turns out.

        1. Thanks @baron . Obviously all is fine with the halo so I’ll pipe down.

    7. Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
      28th October 2017, 8:27

      COTD just explains why Bottas is a push over and not on the level of those other guys. I do like him though and hope he regroups for a decent second season.

    8. Regarding COTD – everybody has their own cup of tea. Valteri Bottas is a fair and quick driver, but this is what separates quick drivers, who are race winners, from the greatest drivers like Hamilton, Vettel, Verstapen, Ricciardo or Alonso. Every one of these drivers are WDC material (I expect Ricciardo and Verstapen to be champions in the future and would be surprised if they retired without having at least one title). The greatest drivers aren’t afraid to get dirty sometimes, when they need to. Because sometimes you can win those 2 or 5 points, that are so crucial in the championship standings. Also, they establish themselves among other drivers warning them – don’t mess with me, because I won’t yield and will win at any cost. I was regarding Rosberg in the same way, but he made his own conclusions – after being pushed by Lewis several times (fair and square), he wanted to establish himeslf against Lewis and show him, that he’d rather risk colliding than yielding to his teammate. And that’s why he became champion (don’t repeat your reliability nonsense, there are no ifs and buts) – he got dirty and he learned how to do it in more subtle manner. And that’s why I think Bottas will never become champion, unless he makes his own conclusions. He is just Coulthard of these days, though he has some job to even match Coulthard. There’s no gentlemen in the F1 history chapter about the greats.

      1. @osvaldas31 It’s not reliability bs. Someone calculated that Hamilon lost 100points because of that. Even just that 28 points for the DNF in Malaysia is enough.

        It’s also bs that Rosberg changed his way. Look at the start of Canada 2014. Who pushed who off track?

        Rosberg always did this when he had the chance. He just didn’t have it that often before. Rosberg was more likely to choke and fly off track when he got pressured and Hamilton was past. So he couldn’t assert himself as the guy hard to pass since he was in the grass trying to get back on the black stuff.

        The only thing which changed was that Rosberg started pushing people off when he didn’t have the right to do so. So he started getting penalties for that (Hockenheim, Austria) You have got to be kidding me that you think that dumb behavior was what gifted him the WDC.

        Rosberg was just as far behind compared to Hamilton as in the seasons before. Hamilton’s technical issues were just slightly more severe than before.

        1. Canada 2014? I can clearly recall an earlier example. Rosberg showed in Bahrein 2012 that he could be ruthless by pushing Fernando off the track. A feat he would retry in 2014 vs Hamilton as well.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_sMZG0MLcc

        2. Well said. Rosberg won the championship. But to claim he did so because he was better than Lewis that season, or even his own previous form is pure lunacy.

        3. Lewis pushed Rosberg off in USA 2015 where Nico also outqualified him.

    9. “No one expected Ferrari’s 2017 success” – Arrivabene. Sorry, have we been watching the same season?

      1. Obviously he means before the season started. You don’t ‘expect’ something when it has already happened.

        1. Have to say though, that with their budget advantage over everyone else (they get paid $80m more than any other team annualy) I espect a lot more than the performance that we’ve seen from them since 2008 really.

      2. No one expected Ferrari’s 2017 success

        Though everyone expects the Ferrari Inquisition.

    10. *Sigh* They’re all great drivers with different strengths and weaknesses which sometimes show themselves, and there are a million possible causes of which we will never know the details why one driver might outperform another in one team, in one season. There is no universal ranking system for talent. Any claim that “my favourite driver is better than yours because [insert deliberately false reasoning here]” serves no purpose other than to invite ridicule.

    11. When will we stop debating about Lewis and his abilities, results, records etc?

      It doesn’t matter if you like him or not, the point is, the stats back him up. At the end of the day, thats all that counts. It also doesnt matter that he’s had a car that was capable of running at the front from day 1, he had the opportunity and took it. You make your own luck.

      He’s probably a prick, but then again, 90% of the grid can be classified as such. He isn’t in F1 to make friends, he’s in it to win it, and he’s doing that.

      The guy will probably go down as the greatest racing driver of all time when he ends his career. We wont know if he really was, but the stats will tell you he was, and whether you like it or not, accept it and move on.

      1. The guy will probably go down as the greatest racing driver of all time when he ends his career.

        Doubtful. Even if he wins 8 titles or 92 GP’s or whatever he’s still the guy that lost to Rosberg who was worse than Webber. And besides that, Senna is often regarded as the GOAT and is nowhere close to 7 WDC’s or 91 GPs’. Stats don’t make someone the greatest of all time.

        1. Stats maketh the man. Ham lost to Rosberg by 5 points only. He lost 28 points in Malaysia – do the stats. that was the pivotal moment in 2016. In any case, you can’t win everything. You win some, you lose some. Rosberg deserved the WDC; he had been with Merc from the beginning.

          Just baffling to me why some people on here see themselves as custodians to the Hall of fame and take it upon themselves to denigrate others. As if by doing so this diminishes Ham. Or as if posterity will judge him by what people said about him. It will be the stats dear boy, the stats.

          Learn how to be someone who can acknowledge excellence than to be that most disagreeable of persons – a naysayer.

      2. Mercedes are breaking records and will probably go down as the greatest team ever. All they did was buy out someone else’s team and engine and ask a sticker company to change the badges.

    12. Five years ago I would have said that Sebastian (Vettel) was the stronger character. When I was Lewis (Hamilton’s) team mate he was unbelievably quick, but mentally… You wouldn’t purposely try to hurt him, but it would just happen and he would crack.

      The same is still true today. The only difference is now he’s got a teammate that only very rarely gets close to him. Just wait. If Bottas starts outperforming Hamilton a couple of times in a row in 2018 we’ll undoubtedly see Hamilton imploding again just like last year.

      1. I don’t think Bottas is capable of that. He’s a very good driver, but he’s off the pace in qualy way to often and doesn’t race as hard as we have seen greats like Alonso and Hamilton do over the years. So yeah, he’s good but not quite great imho.

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