Max Verstappen, Red Bull, Interlagos, 2017

Renault costing Red Bull half a second on straights – Verstappen

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In the round-up: Max Verstappen says GPS data shows Red Bull are losing half a second on the straights because of their Renault power units.

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  • 40 comments on “Renault costing Red Bull half a second on straights – Verstappen”

    1. Michael Brown (@)
      12th November 2017, 1:52

      High downforce plus fixed gear ratios.

      1. fixed gear ratios

        Mmm, now there’s a good point. I wouldn’t mind seeing gear ratios being opened up again, or limited to something like 10-12 ratios for a season. That’s a good way of giving teams flexibility (i.e. tailor a car for acceleration or outright top speed), while not increasing costs by much (I think, as it’s a purely mechanical component).

        1. Gear ratios are pretty much irrelevant. These turbo engines have a very wide power band, so they probably do not even need 8 gears.

        2. @mbr-9 @phylyp indeed, as I’ve said for a while, I think fixed gear ratios are far too restrictive and punishing if they get it wrong, especially if power unit updates have an effect.

          I think a good compromise would be to allow new ratios with each new gearbox (every five races).

          @f1infigures I agree with not needing 8 gear ratios, especially given how low the engines rev currently. Going back to 7 would be much better

          1. I think a good compromise would be to allow new ratios with each new gearbox (every five races).

            @strontium New ratios per gearbox is a very sensible approach. They might just have to amend the rule about running a gearbox for five successive events, and instead make it like power units – limit it to a number for three season.

          2. Michael Brown (@)
            12th November 2017, 16:29

            Of all of the things to restrict, gear ratios were the most asinine. Were teams really spending so much money on setting them up for each race? Or maybe the FIA were sick of Red Bull running short 7th gears in 2010-2013

      2. Final drive ratios are still free, I believe. Plus, downforce isn’t automatically a top speed killer if it can be created efficiently. The goal is a good lift/drag ratio. Red Bull might be running higher wing angles because their package is less effecient overall than Mercedes’.

      3. Fixed gear ratios is one the better rules of late.

    2. Roth Man (@rdotquestionmark)
      12th November 2017, 2:52

      I love the race and the track but these armed robberies have gone on too long now.

    3. Wait, what? But Red Bull just announced that they’ve had the best car in the last 4 races, how about that?

      1. The straight at interlagos has always shown up power deficits.

      2. I guess it’s more about a poor car set-up. Both drivers were complaining about the front end of the car. Interlagos is not really a power-sensitive track.

        1. Interlagos is one of the most power-sensitive tracks due to the big elevation changes and the super long straight that goes uphill on and on.

          1. @godius, the thing is, Red Bull were consistently losing time in all of the sectors, and their losses in the middle sector were similar to the first sector. They might be a bit down on straight line speed, but @f1infigures is right to note that their drivers were not completely satisfied with the handling balance and they were a bit off the pace in the tighter infield as well.

            Furthermore, when relations between Red Bull and Renault are already strained due to the dispute over Toro Rosso’s engines, I can’t help but feel that there is also an element of Red Bull wanting to use the media to give Renault a bit of a kicking.

    4. I’m a bit surprised that this circuit although a good one is still part of the Championship considering how long these type of things have been an issue.

    5. And when Red Bull gets engine parity, can the others than complain that on almost all tracks the Red Bull has a better aero package and therefore simply gets pole?

      Or even now really. Even a wet Monza their aero package was much better suited. Only Hamilton pulled a Q3 lap from nowhere.

      Besides we all know how well Red Bull does an analysis like that. They probably forget that they added much more downforce or compared an out- or in lap of Verstappen to a quali lap from Bottas.

      1. No, because looking at the top speeds, with McLaren also getting parity they win even more @patrickl, seeing how Alonso is down 11kmh on Bottas and 5kmh on Verstappen :) Yeah, all this data is no doubt super objectively true, and not at all trying to make a point.

    6. When you look at the layout of the circuit it looks pretty obvious you gain a lot from more power. The start of the very long straight, so after turn 12 goes straight uphill. The speed you miss there will affect you the entire way until turn 1. That’s 1/3 of the circuit.

      We all know that the power delta is extra big in qualy mode, so it seems to be a legit statement here.

      Hopefully Max can get ahead in the esses in lap 1. Will be firework!!

    7. Well Verstappen should have signed for Mercedes or Ferrari then.

      Team is a team, total time matters, driver might be costing them .5 s aswell, who knows where Red Bull would be with say a Hamilton(I pick him because he is the most successful qualifier in history).

      It is always about the team. Red Bulls were slow on the straights for a decade.. They were champions just fine. Finger pointing wont get them anywhere…

      1. Ferrari is a drivers death trap and Mercedes supremacy won’t last the comming four years.

        1. Once more in English please Johnny!

        2. The history of Merc in F1 does not support your comment.

          1. The team most likeley to be dominant is Mercedes… They have top engine for last 10 years or more, have won 6 championships, and have one of the largest budgets.

            Red Bull sure make awesome cars. But their engines are likeley not to be #1 in the forseable future.

            Ferrari sure is a driver dead end.. Look at Alonso and now Vettel. Delivering their finest years to car that is only close to the top.

            Max would have to sign for Mercedes. Meanwhile he has to be so good Mercedes cannot not have him in 5 years…

    8. I think Max should be complaining directly to Tag Heuer (https://www.tagheuer.com/en/partnerships/red-bull-racing) – Their web site is claiming “Get ready for adventure at 200 miles per hour as we make motor magic together.” – seems they think there is nothing wrong.

      1. To be fair to him, Max did only say “engine” and not “Renault” at all. The only mention of “Renault” in the article is in the header, and that clearly is editorial.

    9. Part of the people working on the circuit could leave it together with police in front and behind (if police cannot give this service, then private security sure could). If there are others that need absolutely to leave it after or before, why don’t use helicopters until flying taxis will be available?

    10. Classic Red Bull: I won thanks to my chassis and i explain any bad perf with the engine. I really want them to create their own engine and be competitive with it. At least it will free us from their recurring moaning about their engine, which has been ongoing for 10y now…

    11. Surely Max should be saying TAG Heuer costs them half a second on the straights. Red Bull have nothing to do with Renault.

      Maybe we all should start referring to the Red Bull cars as the Monster team.

      1. You should say that to the editor, not to Max: he didn’t mention “Renault” at all, only “the engine” ;-)

      2. I think we are both commenting why on earth Tag Heuer think it is a good idea to pay to stick their brand name on the a component that is then the subject of so many complaints from the team.

    12. So give them Honda in 2019. Which may be the only option :D Mercedes nor Ferrari would want to offer them anything I think. But it could well be the case that Honda has solves their issues by then.

      At this track, I don’t think it is just Renault affecting the lap. The car hasn’t looked as tidy as it usually does on kerbs and around the bends. The Red Bull usually looks flawless in this area. But Mercedes and Ferrari somehow looked smoother. So I don’t think I agree with Verstappen. I think it’s just a mix of the car not being setup quite right today. But the speed on the strait certainly does play a part in it all.

    13. Seems like they should build a hotel within the circuit grounds.

    14. Think Max is quickly establishing himself as one of the best if not the best driver on the grid.

      He is also quickly establishing himself as the biggest whingebag on the grid as well. Shame. Doesn’t help having his mentally unhinged father around giving advice, the sooner he ditches him, the better.

      1. Giving a factual explanation about your qualy lap is not whining.

        Max is straight to the point, like always

        1. @anunaki if only it was factual rather than political…

    15. Of course paddy lowe says the engine is not the issue in f1 when their team williams has the best engines from mercedes. It is beneficial for williams that mercedes keeps their adventage so williams also keeps theirs.

    16. I’m pretty shocked that Max made the comment which is obvious but the timing couldn’t be worse with Toro Rosso and Renault not getting along at the moment.

    17. Rb should build their own engine then. Maybe others loose a few tenths in the corners to them so what. It’s engine plus chassis plus driver….the whole package. Engines are every bit as important as chassis. Engines were important long before aero came into F1. If they want equal engines then others should have equal aero.

      1. F1 has never been about building your engines. It is about building your own chassis. The engine, tires, fuel and lots of other bits have always come outside the team. And the most succesful teams have got their engines elsewhere. Williams, mclaren, lotus etc… Not to mention building engines has never been this expensive. sigh

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