[gmsabu]
Nico Hulkenberg, Lance Stroll and Carlos Sainz Jnr have been given reprimands for their roles in the incident in qualifying which led to eight drivers failing to set a time.
The trio ran at the front of the pack at the beginning of Q3 at a comparatively slow pace. That contributed to eighth of the nine drivers on the track failing to set a time. Sainz was the only one who did.
In the cases of all three drivers, the stewards noted they admitted they had driven “unnecessarily slowly” during their out-laps because they wanted to get a slipstream from other cars. The stewards ruled all three “played a significant role in the banking up of cars at a critical stage of the final out lap for Q3”.The stewards added they “strongly recommend that the FIA expedite a solution to this type of situation.”
Hulkenberg said the situation arose because all the drivers were trying to get in position to take a slistream from another car.
“We’re all looking for a tow, obviously, because if you want to do the ultimate, fastest time, that’s what you need around here,” he said. “Just so much lap time and so powerful.
“When you drive on your own you just lose on the straights and you can’t make up that time in the corners, basically. Hence we ended up with this conditions.
“To some extent it’s just down to the cars as well because the tow effect is massive. But of course it was a bit weird and strange, for sure, that last out-lap.”
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bosyber (@bosyber)
7th September 2019, 19:48
Didn’t they have a rule about not driving unnecessarily slowly in the outlap, or was that only in the inlap? Maybe time to revisit that?
Hugh (@hugh11)
7th September 2019, 19:54
The only driving unnecessarily slowly penalty I can remember is when Hamilton was given a penalty for doing that on the pit entry in Bahrain in a the race a few years ago.
I think they made the right call in the end. At the end of the day, anyone else at the front of the pack would’ve done exactly the same, it was shambolic all round, just let this one go and sort the rules out so it doesn’t happen again.
HAL
7th September 2019, 20:00
Well, it wasn’t unnecessary, they needed that slipstream ! ;-) . Seriously, glad they didn’t put that on just a few “choosen on”, the situation needs a global rethink indeed…
Bruno Verrari
7th September 2019, 20:40
+1
Lee1
8th September 2019, 0:44
This is ridiculous. Hulkenberg clearly should be given a penalty for going off course for no reason at all. Saint and stroll were just going slow like everyone else. No one can convince me that no other driver could have gone quicker and overtaken them if they wanted. In fact sainz and stroll clearly wanted others to overtake them! All the driver’s should have been reprimanded with hulkenberg given a penalty. What a disgrace! But the. Why have they no rules for this…?
Ronald (@mosquito)
8th September 2019, 9:41
they did not give the merc guys a penalty when they pulled over at the end of the pitlane in Q3 a few races ago, so that would be quite a double standard.
regs (@regs)
7th September 2019, 21:58
There is a rule for blocking, but pointless… We know FIA stewarding is a complete joke. They just use stewarding for own purpose wherever they want and to whoever they want.
Edvaldo
8th September 2019, 1:59
But they weren’t blocking, just driving slowly.
For most of the time the track was clear but they wouldn’t give up on the tow of the car ahead.
Ended looking like a bunch of fools. It was funny.
F1oSaurus (@)
8th September 2019, 9:50
@bosyber There was a specfic note for this race:
So either they were slower than that time and they should get a proper penalty, or they weren’t and there should be no penalty at all.
Not sure how it can be so difficult for the stewards to follow these simple rules. Just like “tyres need to be in contact with the track” and then oh well, it wasn’t, but some part of the tyre might have been “above the track” so lets just not hand a penalty to Ferrari in their home race.
bosyber (@bosyber)
7th September 2019, 20:00
This bit is quite interesting, wonder what solution they have (or is it just treating the F1 drivers like the F3 drivers and giving them all grid penalties?)
Phylyp (@phylyp)
7th September 2019, 20:11
@bosyber – sounds like a solution on the lines of a minimum speed that has been mooted in other comments.
Jeanrien (@jeanrien)
7th September 2019, 20:42
@phylyp & @bosyber They currently have to match a given lap time to not qualify as driving unnecessarily slowly.
Would more effective if they use the same principle than VSC (having to stay under a given delta instead of below of course) and apply that to the lap time that they have for outlap, ie. use track segments and you are only allow to drive slower than this max lap time on one-two segments. This should solve the issue and guarantee some space at end of lap.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
7th September 2019, 20:47
@jeanrien – good one – the sectored/VSC approach you suggest sounds better than an overall lap time, which can be gamed.
Alesici (@alesici)
8th September 2019, 9:02
I prefer the whole lap rather than sector deltas, as the latter would give the drivers a few too many things to have to juggle. Under safety car, they don’t have to watch their mirrors like a hawk for quick cars shooting past. That’s what they need to be focussing on, not their display panel.
Sensord4notbeingafanboi (@peartree)
7th September 2019, 20:04
It’s dumb but it’s natural. I’m happy that no one got penalised, anyone wanting to post a lap could’ve and it’s not like a monaco 2018 collusion type of tactic.
Paulo
7th September 2019, 20:19
As far as I remember, passing is not forbidden in the out lap… Why penalize who’s in front?
grat
7th September 2019, 20:23
Because they were blocking. Which is penalty worthy.
The stewards should not only be reprimanded, they should have their eyes checked.
Bottas gets his time to count after a red flag (which was the least stupid decision handed out today), Vettel keeps his lap after several other drivers lost theirs for going wide on a turn the FIA explicitly said they were enforcing track limits on, and in spite of radio instructions to block the other drivers, no one got penalized for the stupidity in Q3– which in a way, is reasonable, since all the teams were complicit in that shambles as well.
Has anyone tested the water at Monza recently? Or is it that since it’s Italy, no one is drinking water?
Euro Brun (@eurobrun)
7th September 2019, 21:07
Were they blocking??
They were going slow hoping to be overtaken!
No one wanted to lead and give away a slipstream to a competitor.
Agree that the stewards need to be better.
DB-C90 (@dbradock)
8th September 2019, 0:25
Yeah they were on several occasions. When Stroll slowed initially, the car behind moved so he was just behind and alongside.
Several times the red cars were alongside each other as were other pairs of cars making it impossible to get past them.
So yes there was a heap of blocking and penalties (and severe ones) should have been handed out.
Carlos Medrano (@carlosmedrano)
7th September 2019, 22:28
Agree
Phylyp (@phylyp)
7th September 2019, 20:33
For your viewing pleasure: Hulkenberg, Sainz and Stroll in Q3
Jere (@jerejj)
7th September 2019, 21:09
@phylyp Thanks for that link. I can see the resemblance to today’s Q3-farce.
Adam (@rocketpanda)
7th September 2019, 21:01
Maybe I’m in a minority here but I’m actually really surprised nobody got a grid penalty for that mess. From Vettel’s is he or isn’t he over the line, Bottas’s out of time suddenly in time lap and the mess of everyone tripping up over themselves and slowing everyone down so nobody set a time. Given the memo that was sent out said they’d be penalised for doing literally EXACTLY what they did – especially after punishing so many cars in a support race for the same issue I can’t say I agree with this at all.
Also, admittedly, it was a really good chance to mix up the field a little and not punishing anyone meaningfully sends the message that while it’s frowned on, nobody’s going to do anything about it. Bad call in my opinion.
Phylyp (@phylyp)
7th September 2019, 21:10
@rocketpanda –
bosyber (@bosyber)
8th September 2019, 10:37
Well done @phylyp, catchy
DB-C90 (@dbradock)
8th September 2019, 0:37
You can bet that if Williams has done this in P1 and backed up the field so that only they and Haas got a time got times and no one else did thy’d Have had the book thrown at them but because its the “top” teams involved, the stewards develop a severe case of “lack of will”.
By failing to punish anyone, they’ve opened the door to a whole new tactic if a team delivers a surprising provisional pole lap on the first run in Q3.
I’d almost be prepared to bet that the next time One of the big three have a better than average first run, while the others make a small mistake, they’ll be first out on the second and all of a sudden will be screaming “no power”, “no power” whilst slowly driving and weaving to hold back the pack only to have their PU come good metres before the line.
Esploratore (@esploratore)
8th September 2019, 7:08
Ahah, that’s funny, they should actually do it though, so fia changes something, same goes for the fixed 5 sec time penalty, if I were verstappen I’d have passed hamilton by cutting the chicane at monaco, silly rules are silly and need to be fixed, if you don’t to something they won’t.
Ronald (@mosquito)
8th September 2019, 9:46
Even if they do, overtake the guy and get your lap in. Really weird only 3 guys are penalised now, while during 80-90% of the lap the other cars could easily overtake the frontrunners and drive away to the horizon.
F1oSaurus (@)
8th September 2019, 9:54
@rocketpanda I completely agree. The specific note was that there was a minimum lap time of 1:45. So either they were slower and deserved a proper penalty or they were fine and then no penalty should have been given. It’s really not that difficult. Or it shouldn’t be if people actually understood how to apply rules.
Plus indeed also the rule that part of a wheel needs to stay in contact with the track. But of course they cannot penalize Ferrari in their home race so lets make up a different interpretation from a poor camera angle which shows nothing to conclude that the evidence is inconclusive.
The stewards are really bending over backwards (or forwards) to make sure they mess up the stewarding. It’s disgusting.
Jere (@jerejj)
7th September 2019, 21:08
“strongly recommend that the FIA expedite a solution to this type of situation.”
What’s there to do for the FIA, though? The only realistic solution to avoid this type of mess is simply to go out earlier rather than leave everything very tight with the time left. What happened in the equivalent Q3 in China should’ve been enough for everyone to realize not to let everything get extremely tight with the timing, but they just never seem to learn from past errors.
eljueta (@eljueta)
7th September 2019, 22:30
Changing the qualifying format to solo flying laps or forcing everyone to stay in a line and allow for cars to pass would probably work.
But in the end the teams/drivers themselves are the ones at a loss with these antics anyway.
JohnnyUK
7th September 2019, 22:59
To me it an easy solution that wouldn’t spoil the fun of watching the games play out would be to allow any car on track when the time runs out to pass the start/finish and do one more lap, taking the chequered flag after that final lap.
Then the run to the line before the flying lap isn’t against the clock and we can just enjoy it.
Matt
7th September 2019, 23:37
They are all pretending to be angry at the farce (like toto wolff) but it’s all a show. If it was a track where Lewis could have got pole on his own he’d be fuming at getting blocked. However because he couldn’t get the tow he wanted he had no chance of pole so let’s not bother and let’s pretend to be really angry at not getting a go.
I like hulkenberg but his pathetic trip round the barrier chicane at turn one is worthy of a penalty even if no other driver is penalised.
DB-C90 (@dbradock)
8th September 2019, 1:39
Actually pretty accurate about Mercedes.
I’m thinking they’d be delighted to have ended up 2nd and 3rd when it was probably more likely that they’d get worse positions than better from a second run.
Renault probably the same.
The only team badly affected was RBR and given that it wasn’t Max inconvenienced, they’re hardly likely to scream about it either. They were probably the dumbest of all teams given they could have sent their driver out first and he would have fairly easily picked up 5th or 6th without a tow after he didn’t get a chance in the first run because of the red flag.
Esploratore (@esploratore)
8th September 2019, 7:11
Yes, that’s true, and honestly even then they lost very little, he was what, 8th I think, and would’ve clearly been 5th, I’ve seen across this qualifying session that he’s a decent driver in a top car, unlike gasly, so he was definitely unable to threaten the mercedes in q3 but should’ve been plenty in the clear from ricciardo and the other midfield cars, which I wouldn’t put the hand on fire about gasly; and then in the race normally shouldn’t be hard to pass 3 cars.
John Titus
8th September 2019, 2:36
I think it’s time to re-visit solo runs for each car that makes it into fp3. Give each car 4 laps. 2 runs with 1 warmup lap and 1 fast lap.
Then we would see the actual speed of each car without this drafting rubbish.
John Titus
8th September 2019, 2:37
Sorry I meant Q3.
Sundar Srinivas Harish (@sundark)
8th September 2019, 4:41
The Mercedes drivers should also be given reprimands for their “practice starts”. They’ve already pulled the same crap once this year, and the FIA has let it slide again. Anyone moving over to the practice start line while the qualifying countdown is active should have their subsequent hot lap immediately deleted.
dan
8th September 2019, 7:35
Hey stupid that is allowed @sundark
F1oSaurus (@)
8th September 2019, 9:56
@sundark What on earth is wrong with that? It’s perfectly legal. They are in no one’s way. They hurt no one’s time. What’s the penalty for then?
Sundar Srinivas Harish (@sundark)
8th September 2019, 10:55
@f1osaurus They’re taking advantage of a technicality. They bait other cars out of the garage, pull over and then ride in their tow. Its too cheeky by far.
erix
8th September 2019, 4:55
Should be penalized under the rule of bringing disgrace to the sport.