Lando Norris said Lewis Hamilton’s record-breaking achievement in the Portuguese Grand Prix was a matter of him “doing the job he has to do” in a superior car.
Hamilton scored the 92nd victory of his career on Sunday, which moved him ahead of the former record for most Formula 1 wins previously held by Michael Schumacher.Asked for his view on his fellow Briton’s achievement, Norris said: “I’m just happy for him, nothing more.
“It doesn’t mean anything to me, really. He’s in a car which should win every race, basically.
“He has to beat one or two other drivers, that’s it. Fair play to him, he’s still doing the job he has to do.”
Norris ran in close company with Hamilton early in the race while team mate Carlos Sainz Jnr took the lead.
“We had an amazing start, both of us, as a team,” he said. “To see two orange cars first and third was pretty cool. It didn’t last very long. But we had a really good start and we put our car in the right position and we drove well. So I’m happy for what I did as well.”
“We suffered a bit with the graining on the front tyres, we dropped quite quickly,” said Norris. “And then we had the incident with Stroll.
“From what I did, I feel like I did a good job. We just got unlucky with other people doing stupid things.”
Norris added his congratulations to Hamilton in McLaren’s post-race press release: “Congratulations to Lewis on achieving a record 92 wins, it’s a great achievement.”
Update: Norris subsequently issued an apology for “things I’ve said lately in media and interviews”
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2020 Portuguese Grand Prix
- Norris apologises following Stroll and Hamilton comments
- McLaren keen to see if Ferrari’s “very impressive” pace was a one-off
- Norris: ‘Hamilton’s car should win every race, he only has to beat two drivers’
- Racing Point expect better performance from Stroll at Imola after troubled return
- Mercedes set to win constructors’ title at Imola, Hamilton’s coronation will have to wait
David Bondo
26th October 2020, 18:18
Agree with Norris.
Gusmaia
26th October 2020, 19:10
And I agree with you.
It has been said on another comment section that the current field counts about 100 wins (ex Hamilton) .
50ish of those are Vettel’s. Another 20ish are Raikonnen’s. Verstappen has 9, Bottas, 7.
A 92 wins record is nice but we should not disregard that there is only a car and a half with winning chance on the grid.
Prost had 51 wins, while his 4 main adversaries got more than 120.
TomGP87
26th October 2020, 20:02
@Gusmaia
What a strange way to use statistics. You compare Hamilton’s total against the current field (which of course excludes Rosberg, Button, Alonso, Webber etc) but compare Prost’s throughout his career.
If you did the same with Prost then actually it would be very similar. At the end of 1993 he had 51 wins; Senna had 41, Patrese 6, Berger 3, Hill 3, Schumacher 2, a few others. Basically the sum of his competitors in 93 was slightly more than his alone, same as Hamilton now.
If you want to compare their whole careers then Hamilton won 35% of races entered and Prost 25%. Your odd choice of statistics suggests Hamilton’s win rate was 2-3x that of Prost, which it clearly isn’t.
So I’m very unsure what point you’re making in a very lop-sided comparison.
Sue
26th October 2020, 23:58
I agree why do people not give Hamilton the respect and credit due to him 🤔
A M (@amam)
26th October 2020, 19:14
Well, he’s wrong—apart from 2020 and 2014-2016, of course Hamilton has had to beat more than 2 drivers to get his wins
2007- had to beat Alonso in the same car, Kimi and Massa in an evenly matched Ferrari
2008- had to beat his teammate, Massa and kimi in an evenly matched Ferrari, and Kubica/Heidfield in a first half competitive BMW
2009-2013- Brawn and RB were class of the field..
2017-2018-had to beat his teammate and a very evenly matched Ferrari. Let’s throw in races where Rb were quicker than Merc e.g Singapore 2017
2019- Ferrari had quicker car in Canada, Bahrain, Russia etc yet Hamilton took the wins
Norris is a silly, naive kid
Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
26th October 2020, 19:30
@amam he has a point, tho, as you say he had to beat the likes of Alonso, Kimi, Massa, JB, Vettel early in his career, but as the F1 channel on youtube showed today, where they showed all 92 wins, he was only at win number 20 by the time he went to Mercedes.
He basically won 10 races every year from 2014 to 2020. That’s a lot. By no means it’s not a great achievement or he doesn’t deserve it, but to reach 92 wins that fast needed certain circumstances, like constantly having a car that is not only capable of winning races but dominating in what looks like effortless fashion most of the time. Even in the years where Ferrari got their act together, the team as a whole was head and shoulders over the others. It’s a very similar situation to Schumacher in the early 2000s, every other team looked like they had to make an herculean effort to beat them. There’s the constant sense that they are just better and it all has to fall in place for the others to win. These days we don’t even have that…
A M (@amam)
26th October 2020, 19:47
you mean Hamilton was head and shoulders above his competition
I really don’t agree. Apart from 2014-2016 and 2020 Ferrari and RB have often had the pace to challenge for wins
Aiii (@)
26th October 2020, 21:37
Let’s phrase this differently then. On any given Saturday if a Red Bull or a Ferrari has an off day in all these years they’re supposedly competitive, they’re at the back of the top ten or even not in Q3 at all.
If a Merc has an off day, they start third on the grid.
Does this mean Hamilton isn’t in amazing form? Of course not. Does it influence all these record breaking stats? Of course it does.
A M (@amam)
26th October 2020, 22:21
Aiii (@aiii)
Ferrari had the best car on the grid in 2018 and near equal to Merc in 2017, the difference was often Hamilton not making mistakes and winning on tracks where Ferrari were quicker e.g Singapore 2017, Germany 2018, Italy 2018 etc
Tifoso1989 (@tifoso1989)
27th October 2020, 10:18
@amam
He was never considered head and shoulders above the competition pre 2014. In that era, Alonso was considered the reference driver in the paddock while a lot of people tried to diminish that using Vettel’s statistics which were insane at the time and Hamilton wasn’t even in that discussion and you can’t suddenly become the GOAT at 29 years of age.
You’ve just said it, challenging for wins and not for championships. Renault, Williams & McLaren did also have the pace to challenge for wins in 2004 :)
Fantomius (@liko41)
27th October 2020, 21:55
@tifoso1989
Alonso’s never been “the reference driver”.
It was just some of you ferrari’s tifosi which considered him to be it, because you always think the drivers in red suits are demi-gods.
Of course, they become cr@p as soon as they leave the Scuderia.
Hamilton has always been a better driver than Alonso, from his very rookie year in F1.
We can discuss for ages about MSC-Senna-Clark-Fangio-Hamilton comparisons, but ALonso is out of the equation
Deal with it.
melanos
27th October 2020, 22:23
F1 metrics: ALO best 11 years, HAM 2 years, deal with that
Tifoso1989 (@tifoso1989)
29th October 2020, 13:23
@liko41
You just have to look at the drivers rating on this very site to understand who was the reference driver on those years . Alonso was voted by his colleagues as the best driver in seasons like 2010/2012 when Vettel was the world champion and that has nothing to do with the tifosi who still have a lot of respect for him btw even after he left. Apparently you have a better view than most of the F1 community at the time which includes drivers, former WDC, journalists, experts, team principles…
Alonso used to finish higher than Hamilton in the championship when the latter was driving a faster car, he used to take him to school in wheel to wheel racing. Below are the examples which you probably never watched :)
Canada 2013 : How not to get DRSed : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj1xWHDOfzE
Spa 2013 : KERS for dummies : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OmnjYNypB4
Spain 2011 : Start for dummies : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02L56rD0aaE
Spain 2013 : Start for dummies too : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiVDyDkasS8
Enjoy ! and just deal with it :)
Fantomius (@liko41)
29th October 2020, 15:14
@tifoso1989 @melanos
Alonsistas, you are the ultimate joke of auto racing, LOL!
32 wins, half of them originated by retirements of the leading driver.
Your messiah is definitely the most overrated driver in history.
Enjoy and deal with it
Steve (@scbriml)
26th October 2020, 20:10
“but to reach 92 wins that fast needed certain circumstances”
I’m sure his detractors would point out that Schumacher actually reached 91 wins in fewer races. Oh wait, that must mean…
Phil Norman (@phil-f1-21)
26th October 2020, 20:12
I think your analysis is quite right. I am not taking anything away from Lewis because he has done the job he was asked to do. But he has always had the best car since 2014, or joint best at least.
He has always, with the exception of one year, beaten his tea mate quite comfortably though. So he is definitely much better than average.
Sue
27th October 2020, 0:02
Yes but he also took the risk of going to Mercedes and was good enough to keep his place for all these years
dot_com (@dot_com)
27th October 2020, 1:27
He was beaten by Button, Rosberg, and tied on points with Alonso.
Machinery
27th October 2020, 22:04
Good point, tired of reading that he beat Alonso for what it matters. It was a tie or inconclusive at best, in a season he lost by himself.
melanos
27th October 2020, 22:32
Not entering if beating (by a hair’s breadth, when the team was “racing Alonso”, RD dixit) ALO in 2007 was quite comfortable or not, Jenson smashed LEW in 2009 (GOAT? hahahaha) and ROS (not quite so comfortably) in 2016. That makes two.
bosyber (@bosyber)
26th October 2020, 21:29
I think Norris and some you should take in what Verstappen said about it not being the impressive pace as much as having been so relentlessly consistent in being there most every race, which allowed Hamilton to win every year of his career, and allowed him to rack up the wins once he had the car to do it. Norris certainly hasn’t shown that level yet. Schumacher did, which is why he got the previous record and 7 WDCs (okay, possibly also relentless w some cheats, but relentlessly hard working at getting wins surely).
JohnEver (@johnever)
27th October 2020, 7:40
I think…
most of the average or just above drivers on the grid would and could be as consistent with a dominant car like that driving on p1, with nearly any pressure from the back
Those drivers are in my opinion: Verstappen, Leclerc, Vettel, Ricciardo, Sainz, Norris, Hulkenberg, Perez, Gasly, Russel and maybe Bottas (who’ll crack under a little pressure)
I am not saying Hamilton isn’t a very good driver, he is the one in the Mercedes because he earned it in the past, that is how the best drivers get in the best cars…. but with the absolute dominance of the Mercedes all of these drivers could get p1 and be consistent, I think
DeanR
27th October 2020, 7:05
Lewis had 21 wins with maclaren
Samouri (@samouri)
26th October 2020, 19:59
Absolutely A M….Norris looked like a spoiled temperamental little brat as he went too pout, and slump in that chair. When his car broke down in the last race.
Sue
27th October 2020, 0:07
Norris needs to stop playing the joker get his head down and concentrate on becoming as consistent, determined and dedicated as Lewis me thinks.
Paul
26th October 2020, 20:27
It’s really pathetic to hear him play down LH’s achievements;didn’t expect that from him
Mayrton
27th October 2020, 7:49
I dont regard it as downplay, rather putting things in perspective. I dont get why HAM fans get so upset about this. I am a fan of HAM too. He is great. But his tally is wildly influenced by the Merc dominance. A car he drives because he deserves it and is the best. But nevertheless… a bit of loat rather than goat (l=luckiest)
Fantomius (@liko41)
27th October 2020, 21:58
@Mayrton
Try to ask yourself why mercedes keep paying Hamilton those hefty sums every year, if they could win with every other driver on the grid.
Suggestion: it’s not because he has a nice face.
Priston
27th October 2020, 0:32
Noris is just stupid let them build a winning car with him and his maclearen team, he doesn’t even know what it meant to drive against a two time World champion and trash him, he should first learn how to drive and wins against saniz your team mate you are no where near Hamilton greatness even with Mercedes car you will never be a champion
Markj
27th October 2020, 6:48
Yes, Noris is really a naive silly kid as you said. How many cars did any champion really had to beat for their championships? Schumacher, villinueve, hill, hakkinnen, raikonnen, even prost, mansel and Senna. It’s just plain silly Noris trying to do a Jackie Stewart on Hamilton
chris
27th October 2020, 7:55
Come on, be realistic… ever since the Turbo hybrid era, he only has to beat his team mate and Vettel in a Ferrari in 2 years I think, then Max on Redbull and that’s it… So Norris saying he only has to beat 2 other drivers is accurate. Ferrari or Redbull never built a car that matched the Mercedes in the Turbo era… NEVER… Their car are always winning on a particular circuit but was never strong enough to match if not beat the Mercedes for the whole season. I still think the last competitive F1 season is 2006 to 2008. 2006 is Alonso vs Schumi is a very well matched cars… then in 2007, Ferrari and Mclaren are matched as well and again in 2008… But after that it is all about the cars, Brawn had a dominant car in 2009 with the diffuser, and in 2010 Ferrari challenged Redbull but after that the 1 sec a lap advantage of the leading team started… 2011 to 2013, RB 1 sec a lap faster, then 2014 till 2020, Mercedes is 1 to 1.5 second a lap faster.
JB22
27th October 2020, 8:09
Just looking at your examples from 2019 shows how delusional you are.
Bahrein: Leclerc had an engine failure after leading by like 10 seconds so Hamilton got a gifted race win
Canada: The stewards took away Vettel’s race win after giving him a bs penalty
Russia: Vettel had an engine failure which triggered a VSC so Hamilton got a free pit stop and jumped Leclerc out of pure luck, then Ferrari pitted Charles again to put him on the soft tyres which cost him another position to Bottas
And just because Ferrari had the pace to win 6 races overall last year it doesn’t mean that Hamilton really had to fight them for the world title. Mercedes was basically good enough to win every race last year, Ferrari was only capable on 6 tracks (Bahrein, Canada, SPA, Monza, Singapore, Sochi) and even there they ran into reliability issues. And when they didn’t have the pace they were really rubbish and almost got lapped like Hungary or Melbourne. So you can’t win a championship with a car like that.
Linda Gutteridge
27th October 2020, 8:33
Your right there, Norris is a really nice guy but has not got the experience needed to analyse such amazing achievements Lewis has made , Norris has a lot to learn. Lewis was making records at McLaren, let’s see Norris do the same now his car has improved, the car plays an important part the same as all the team, the driver plays an important part getting it over the finishing line in one piece and 1st as often as possible.
Fantomius (@liko41)
27th October 2020, 22:01
@JB22
That’s exactly the cr@p one would expect from e JB groupie, lol!
Steve (@scbriml)
26th October 2020, 20:08
I’m shocked! Shocked, I tell you.
Robert Koeck
27th October 2020, 0:25
Me too. Legends are made with adversity. Hamilton has not had much adversity in the hybrid era.
Red Andy (@red-andy)
26th October 2020, 18:20
He’s right.
Learon (@learon)
26th October 2020, 18:35
If Mercedes had Vettel and Bottas, ego would lead the WDC? Probably Verstappen. The Mercedes is a great car, but Hamilton is formidable and he makes it look easy. But it isn’t.
Anyhow I enjoy domination in sport, like Federer and Nadal or Phelps or Regrave. That is part of being champion. Not winning sometimes, but most of the time, as faultlessly as possible. Most F1 fans do not feel that way, and would rather see a different winner at every race. To me the results look boring and incredible at the same time. What I find exciting is the continued excellence.
Red Andy (@red-andy)
26th October 2020, 18:40
@learon I don’t think that’s true (Vettel has proved often enough that he is very comfortable driving away from the field at the front, as Hamilton does so well), but even if it is, then it doesn’t detract from the central premise, which is that a car of the quality of the Mercedes should be winning every race.
If you look at the two races they didn’t win so far this year, Silverstone-2 was down to poor tyre management and Monza was down to both drivers making errors (Bottas making a poor start, Hamilton entering a closed pit lane) – without the errors they’d have a clean sweep so far this year. So I think Norris is right in what he’s saying.
Steve (@scbriml)
26th October 2020, 20:18
“Mercedes should be winning every race.”
How many times has a dominant car won every race in a season in the 70-year history of the sport?
Alex
26th October 2020, 21:45
Not for this many consecutive seasons. At least mix it up a little
Learon (@learon)
26th October 2020, 22:36
There for your reply – I mostly agree with you. Do you think Bottas would have won all the races bar Silverstone and Monza of Hamilton wasn’t racing and Bottas was at the front all alone like Verstappen is? (That doesn’t detract from the fact that the Mercedes is a faster car than the Red Bull).
Nick T.
26th October 2020, 23:32
First of all, I think it’s clear that Norris never implied if Hamilton should make a clean sweep of the season or he wasn’t doing a good job. Secondly, Bottas would certainly have won almost every race if he wasn’t desperately trying to beat his teammate in the same car. He struggled during the race and was still a pit stop ahead of Max for a long period in the race.
grub
27th October 2020, 14:30
Without Hamilton, if mercedes only fielded one car and Bottas was the driver, he would have won 6 of 12 races this season based on the positions and occasions he finished 2nd to Hamilton. Perhaps 8 in 10 had it not been for his tire failure in Silverstone which was an unusual circumstance and for his engine failure in Eiffel GP That is very dominant. That would be the same amount as Hamilton has now. So really yes Hamilton has to just worry about Bottas.
hobo (@hobo)
27th October 2020, 23:42
@learon – Well, Bottas is second right now. So either Bottas would be leading or whoever was in the other Merc if they were better. This is a weird hypothetical given the Mercs are 1-2.
Also weird given that (I think) most would put Verstappen above Bottas skillwise yet Bottas is leading.
sebsronnie (@sebsronnie)
26th October 2020, 18:27
He’d be leading Carlos if it was that easy :-)
macradar (@macradar)
26th October 2020, 18:32
EXACTLY!
macradar (@macradar)
26th October 2020, 18:42
Actually I’d love to see what he does in a Merc against Alonso Rosberg and Bottas before he makes such an immature comment and quite rightly he should comprehensively beat his team mate first!
sebsronnie (@sebsronnie)
26th October 2020, 18:45
Next year against DR will be quite interesting at Mclaren… I suspect it may end up being as one-sided as Max vs Albon. For Lando’s sake, I hope not…
BasCB (@bascb)
26th October 2020, 22:28
I think that Norris is better than Albon at the moment @sebsronnie. And Ricciardo can hardly hold a candle to Max (Or Lewis) currently
David BR (@david-br)
27th October 2020, 2:33
@bascb
That infamous Baku race had Max and Ricciardo swapping positions constantly. They looked pretty even to me when it came to close racing and tenacity. Sure Max was faster on one lap speed. However I think Ricciardo was near enough in the races to be serious trouble for Max, which compared to Albon and Gasly is a whole universe of difference.
David Bondo
26th October 2020, 18:34
When you start from the front row every race it’s much easier to avoid trouble than someone in the middle of the pack.
ancker
26th October 2020, 19:06
Where exactly is Norris quoted as saying he was better than Sainz?
All Norris said was “that car (Mercedes) should win every race.” and for Hamilton to be successful, all he has to do is beat his teammate in the other Merc, and the only other viable challenger, Verstappen. The Merc is the dominant car, no question.
No one is claiming that winning a championship is easy, they’re just saying that Hamilton has a relatively easier task compared to his only likely rivals.
Hamilton’s task to WDC:
1) Make no mistakes.
Bottas’ tasks to WDC:
1) Beat his faster teammate.
2) Make no mistakes.
3) Fend off attacks from a faster driver in a less competitive car. (Verstappen)
4) Deal with second choice at strategy. (meaning if HAM is on same tire, BOT is unlikely to get a strategy to overtake)
Verstappen’s tasks WDC:
1) Drive a slower car above it’s potential.
2) Make no mistakes.
3) Have no help from a teammate. (to take points of a rival, holding up for undercut, etc)
4) Beat both Merc drivers.
Hamilton just needs to make no mistakes, which he rarely does, and avoid trouble, which is relatively easier when your start on the front row almost every race.
Bottas and Verstappen have to make no mistakes, beat a faster drive or a similar driver in a faster car, avoid trouble, and be close enough that IF Hamilton makes a mistake, they are able to take advantage.
F1oSaurus (@f1osaurus)
26th October 2020, 20:27
Norris didn’t say that, but it’s inferred by logic.
erikje
27th October 2020, 12:20
No it’s a strawman.
F1oSaurus (@f1osaurus)
27th October 2020, 14:37
You’re a straw man.
Search
26th October 2020, 21:31
I like this analysis. Respecting Lewis’s quality while pointing at the added challenges for the others.
János Henkelmann
26th October 2020, 21:32
“3) Fend off attacks from a faster driver in a less competitive car. (Verstappen)”
Bottas only has to do that because he’s not up there with Lewis.
GechiChan (@gechichan)
26th October 2020, 23:34
I would put one more point on Max’s list:
5) deal with historically poor reliability from Honda or Renault engines (at least compared to Mercedes engines).
David BR (@david-br)
27th October 2020, 2:39
ancker Sorry, that’s just daft. Hamilton has to make no mistakes and be faster than Bottas or else he’s the one having to fend off Verstappen and deal with second choice on strategy. The fact that he’s usually faster isn’t some kind of given! Otherwise you might as well say, ‘Hamilton just has to be Hamilton, pretty easy huh?’
Fantomius (@liko41)
27th October 2020, 22:06
@ancker
At least, as a Verstappen groupie, you didn’t write that Verstappen has to beat his teammate.
Because never in his career he’d had one with the same equipment as his.
Which is by itself a nice record.
Before driving a dominant car, maxiboy should prove he is able to sustain an inter-team battle.
I’ll wait.
Esploratore (@esploratore)
29th October 2020, 4:47
That’s not possible that verstappen never had a team mate with same equipment, take 2016, he was the new one in the team, there’s no reason he instantly got better equipment than ricciardo.
meso
26th October 2020, 20:59
But Lando Noris hasn’t shown that he is any where close to what Hamilton did in his rookie days matched with world champion …
dan
26th October 2020, 18:29
So easy you cannot beat ya teammate Lando mate
Rodber
26th October 2020, 18:32
Thank you Lando. Please mention it next time you’re guesting on Sky.
Edvaldo
26th October 2020, 18:36
Somebody is reacting poorly to see a countryman being so lauded.
Somebody who couldn’t even win the F2 championship with a car capable of that, by the way.
Kids these days…
kuvemar
26th October 2020, 19:44
They only read the headlines, amirite?
ruliemaulana (@ruliemaulana)
26th October 2020, 18:51
Bottas should win more races, he only has to beat one driver.
Aapje (@aapje)
26th October 2020, 20:50
Yes, he should. He’s been performing rather poorly this season (and poorly for a driver in a top team all seasons with Mercedes).
Adam (@rocketpanda)
26th October 2020, 19:04
This is literally the ‘it’s true but he shouldn’t say it’ meme.
Phil Norman (@phil-f1-21)
26th October 2020, 20:14
LOL.
Fantomius (@liko41)
27th October 2020, 22:08
@rocketpanda
It’s more the “it’s totally wrong and, if you can’t realise it, I have bad news for you” meme.
Josh (@canadianjosh)
26th October 2020, 19:09
I like Lando but a bit of a sweet comment with a sour after taste to me.
Alex
26th October 2020, 21:47
It’s just the truth
Kingshark (@kingshark)
26th October 2020, 19:26
The fact that Sebastian Vettel is the third most successful driver of all time is the ultimate evidence that statistics in Formula 1 are fundamentally meaningless.
In order to rack up incredible stats, you basically need two things:
1. outperform your teammate (Bottas or Webber or whoever)
2. have a dominant car
Lewis Hamilton has driven more dominant cars than any other driver in history and his teammates in those seasons were Rosberg and Bottas. Therefore his success simply isn’t that surprising.
ancker
26th October 2020, 19:46
There’s a third factor.
3. The FIA impose a development system where teams who are slightly behind in performance have little chance of catching up because:
a) There’s almost no testing. (Hope this upgrade isn’t a step backwards, if it is, you’ve just lost a ton of points.)
b) The token system allows the incumbent to stay ahead. (You spend 1, they spend 1, they’re still ahead.)
c) Limited power units per season means incremental upgrades instead of “B-spec” swaps.
For the lot of the hybrid era, it’s known Merc is the team to beat with no chance of that changing until the new regulations come into effect for 2021 (now 2022).
JeanSilva02
26th October 2020, 20:46
Spot on Ancher
Also the fact that Merc Budget is the largest on the grid together with Ferrari …
I was suprised by the Race Fans report form last season showing that even RedBull Budget is 100 millions down on Merc …. i’m surprised they can put a leaste some fight for the second place (Verstappen vs Bottas) with such limitation ….
Hans Duiven
26th October 2020, 22:06
Toyota burned 500 Million a year and did absolutely nothing in F1
Balue (@balue)
27th October 2020, 8:09
@Ancker True
MXMXD (@mxmxd)
27th October 2020, 0:04
I wouldn’t qualify the Mercedes as “dominant” for 2017 and 2018. It was possibly the best car on the grid (and when a car is possibly the best, it’s not dominant). Even for 2019 it’s arguable (to a certain extent, for a part of the season at the very least).
Rosberg was absolutely no slouch, and Bottas… well, Bottas is quick, just a bit lacking in the driving/management department.
And Lewis took over from Schumacher, who won championships with even worse teammates as a whole (I can accept Bottas being equal to Barrichello, with Rosberg being better than both), unequal cars within team and more blatent team preference, so in a way, you’re absolutely right that beating your teammate and having a dominant car are the two things needed to tally up records.
John H (@john-h)
27th October 2020, 0:20
You won’t convince Kingshark.
Kingshark (@kingshark)
27th October 2020, 18:01
@mxmxd
All those advantages you listed for Schumacher are more than outweighed by the fact that Hamilton drove four dominant cars (2014, 2015, 2016, 2020) while Schumacher only drove two (2002 and 2004). I would consider both 2001 and 2019 to be half-dominant.
Dave (@davewillisporter)
27th October 2020, 0:48
It’s a team sport. Mercedes are the best team. Lewis is a team member. Lewis went to Merc when they had only won one race in 3 years. They grew together into one of the most successful teams in history. Lewis credits Merc and Merc credits Lewis. I doubt anyone one here can convince anyone else of anything, however when person after person involved in F1, involved in Merc says the same things, I tend to believe them. When past and present team mates of Lewis say the same thing, I tend to believe them. Nikki Lauda knew what Merc needed was Lewis. Ross Brawn knew what Merc needed was Lewis. I believe them. He has contributed to the continued dominance of the team as an inspirational team leader and he has helped develop this amazing car that so many bemoan. Lewis took a risk and the risk payed off. Let’s not forget Merc were after Max but he chose Redbull because they would immediately give him a seat in Torro Rosso. Max didn’t take the risk.
So moan about the most dominant car and that somehow makes the stats irrelevant. What you cannot in good faith deny is that Lewis has played a crucial role in that dominance and is deserving of the rewards that follow.
macradar (@macradar)
27th October 2020, 8:31
I was tryimg very hard to put together the words! But you did!
Thank you.
It’s exactly how I see it!
His move to Merc could kave gone horribly wrong, but it didn’t.
The greats have always dominated. In all sport.
And sometimes for a very very long time.
Still I rise! Go Lewis!
lucifer (@lucifer)
27th October 2020, 11:12
Wel said
F1oSaurus (@f1osaurus)
27th October 2020, 12:37
@davewillisporter Well said indeed.
Balue (@balue)
27th October 2020, 8:07
@kingshark Blatantly obvious, but says a lot that this still has to be pointed out. If it was Vettel who moved to Mercedes 2013, he would undoubtedly have broken Schumacher’s record even earlier than Hamilton did, and the same people who now are hailing Hamilton for his driving and not the car, would with 100% certainty say the opposite and how it all was a meaningless statistic.
lucifer (@lucifer)
27th October 2020, 11:14
vettel vs rosberg, I’m not so sure vettel would have it his own way not against rosberg
F1oSaurus (@f1osaurus)
27th October 2020, 12:51
@balue Vettel would have been destroyed by Rosberg. Just as badly as he was by Ricciardo and Leclerc.
That’s exactly the point. Vettel does not have the consistency, the race craft, the racing mindset, the constant improvement that Hamilton has. Instead Vettel blunders away 2009, 2017, 2018 and 2019. Not by just one poor race, but by about 5 to 8 blunders per season.
Like people say that Button only won because of the car in 2009 and easily winning 6 of the first 7 races. The reality is that Vettel crashed out of the points for 3 of the first 7 races. Plus Vettel was unable to overtake cars while Button was. Button started half of those races behind Vettel.
Balue (@balue)
27th October 2020, 13:03
@f1osaurus Good too finally see a Hamilton fan admitting that one doesn’t much skill to win titles in F1.
F1oSaurus (@f1osaurus)
27th October 2020, 14:35
@balue True even a driver like Vettel can win titles, if the car is superior enough and his team mate has his wings clipped.
Still, Hamilton had to fight against Alonso, Rosberg and Bottas. So that’s already quite a step up.
Carlos Medrano (@carlosmedrano)
27th October 2020, 9:00
Yes but at least Hamilton has beaten some of the best drivers in f1. He beat Alonso which is one of the best, Button, Rosberg all great drivers. Vettel beat webber in a team that heavily favored Vettel and the slow Kimi who looked horrible against Alonso in the Ferrari. Vettel is proof that the best drivers don’t always end up in the best car, but Hamilton kinda proves that theory with him being one of the best
Esploratore (@esploratore)
29th October 2020, 4:55
Yes, there’s no doubt f1 is a sport where the car hugely inflates your numbers if you have a dominant one for a long period, and let’s say hamilton deserves his 90 + and vettel his 50 + wins, in that case verstappen and leclerc should have 90+ too (and so should old drivers such as prost, clark, ascari, fangio) and certainly ricciardo should have over 50 too.
I keep seeing people bring arguments such as “vettel > leclerc or ricciardo or verstappen cause he has 4 titles and 50 wins and they have no titles and a handful of wins”, it’s like it doesn’t matter at all that vettel had a rocketship for 4 years and that those drivers would’ve won the same or more in the same circumstances.
At least I think hamilton deserves the credit that he’s still driving at a high level, and even when he didn’t have such a good car (cause it’s easier with that car) he wasn’t horrible, even in 2011 which is considered his worst season by many, vettel hasn’t exactly driven well lately, this season I’d rank him below top 15 if correcting for the car.
A M (@amam)
26th October 2020, 19:28
The silly boy doesn’t know what he’s talking about
2007- had to beat Alonso in the same car, Kimi and Massa in an evenly matched Ferrari
2008- had to beat his teammate, Massa and kimi in an evenly matched Ferrari, and Kubica/Heidfield in a first half competitive BMW
2009-2013- Brawn and RB were class of the field..
2017-2018-had to beat his teammate and a very evenly matched Ferrari. Let’s throw in races where Rb were quicker than Merc e.g Singapore 2017
2019- Ferrari had quicker car in Canada, Bahrain, Russia etc yet Hamilton took the wins
Norris is a silly, naive kid. Hope Ricciardo hands his ass to him next season
Kingshark (@kingshark)
26th October 2020, 19:44
@amam
He was unable to finish any higher than 4th for five consecutive seasons when he did not have the best car.
Does that not prove the point that Hamilton’s inflated statistics are largely a product of the car he’s driving?
A M (@amam)
26th October 2020, 19:52
We’re talking about wins here—every win between 2009-2013 he was needing to beat his teammate, Brawn/and or
RB and/ or Ferrari
Kingshark (@kingshark)
26th October 2020, 19:55
@amam
And I’m pretty sure that Lando is talking about the current state of Formula 1, not what happened in 2009 or 2013.
Right now, Hamilton only has to beat Bottas. He has zero actual competition.
Mashiat (@mashiat)
26th October 2020, 20:41
@amam Between 2010-2013, Hamilton won 11 races. His teammates won 10. He never mounted a serious title challenge without the fastest car, which Alonso, in a car that was slower than the ones Hamilton drove, managed. Hamilton is an all-time F1 great, maybe even the greatest, but it would be laughable to suggest that he would dominate F1 like he does without the fastest car. All he has had to do for six seasons (bar 2018) is just beat his teammate and he would basically be crowned WDC. And neither Rosberg or Bottas would be in anyone’s top 10 list of best drivers in F1 history. Not since 2013 has there been a time when his car was incapable of finishing on the podium (few exceptional circumstances excluded).
A M (@amam)
26th October 2020, 20:49
wrong. 2010–in a McLaren less reliable than the Alonso’s Ferrari–and slower
https://clone.racefans.net/2010/12/13/2010-in-stats-part-three-car-performance/
wrong
2017 Ferrari challenged and Vettel led for nearly the entire season
jeanSilva02